Re: Mysterious Leaks

Al, I lost track - what year Bug?

In the '72 (and other years), there is a tube intended to drain the fresh air intake just in front of the windwhield. Inside the trunk there is _supposed_ to be a drain tube that carries water from the vent down and out behind the spare tire. If that tube is missing, water flows through a hole in the front wall and into the cabin between the driver and passenger seats. Any old tubing that fits will fix the problem.

Dunno - just a data point.

It's a '68, and the drain tube is in place.

You might look at the seam between the floor pan halves and the tunnel. Sometimes this was spot welded (when the pans are replaced) and the places between the spot welds isn't sealed well. I assume you took up the carpet/padding and looked for holes in the floor... Are the door drains clear? Make sure the welding of the top/bottom of the heater channels is without gaps. Water can get in there too. One thing, try running a hose over the hood of the car along the seams of the trunk seal then see if it is wet inside after opening it (after turning off the water.....) Even new rubber can get mushed down and have gaps.

What about the rear seatbelt anchor holes under the rear seat... and the package tray. I've seen water come in there if the bolts are missing for the rear seatbelts or if the package tray is rusted out. Also, if the floorpan gasket is missing/has gaps in back this can allow water to come in.

If the hose on the trunk doesn't add water, try running the hose over the back vent below the window. See if there is some rust allowing water in there.

One other place for a little water can be if there is a bolt hole unplugged for the pedal assembly on the driver's side. That wouldn't make for a flood, thought.

Al,.............I don;t know if this will help, but I can attest to a strange leak in one of my cars,..............finally rusted the package tray out so bad I cut it out and have a temp plate in it.

The rear window seal,...........doesn't matter at what location it is leaking. If the seal has a tiny or large leak anywhere, it will run down the back wall of the car and find the low spot, no matter where the low spot it. I had the problem bad enough that if it rained and then froze a day or two later, the carpet in my car was really stiff. The water made its way all the way forward and to the driver and passenger side floor pans.

As Kirk suggested, try water hose application and have some one inside the car ( or swap places with them ) and do some "active" trouble shooting.

good luck, and I hpe you find your leak before it does some major damage.

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Thanks to all for all the suggestions of possible solutions to my leakage problem. Apologies to the group, but I'm having problems posting and replying to posts; don't know if it's XP, Outlook Express, my ISP, gremlins, or what. Anyway, here's what I know, consolidated into one post:

A question for the group:

Is it possible that the aftermarket fender beading that I'm using could be responsible for the water leakage I get in mein Volkswagen? Having exhausted all (I think) the obvious possibilities over the last several years, I decided to try silicone caulk on the mounting bolt holes for my front fenders last fall. Since I never got around to doing it, and spring may be coming at some point here, the issue has come to mind again.

That aftermarket (I.e. JCW) stuff I used seemed rather stiff and plastic-y, whereas I think the original stuff was more flexible and rubbery. It seems like it may help seal water out at the points where the bolts fasten to the body. Any thoughts?

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Just to clarify, here's what I can recall trying:

The trunk seal is (was) new in 2000, as is all other rubber (including the breather box seal.) I siliconed those weird corner areas and all along the top edge; around all trim clips from door posts forward; around windshield and trim; around wiper posts and antenna; around door hinges; around the edges of the pan-to-body seal. The 'firewall' area was pretty rusty so I made sure I siliconed any questionable areas around patches. Master cylinder/brake line holes thru firewall were siliconed. Wherever it's getting in, it seems to show up in the heater channel (coming out of the wiring harness hole behind the heater outlet.) This is a '68 so it has the older style metal-covered heat outlet in front of the door post.

I've been afraid to install the carpeting, for obvious reasons, and drive it with tarboards on the floor covered by rubber mats. I think I may have eliminated some water coming in from some of the other areas I've siliconed over the last 4 years, but it still gets some on both sides; a bit more on the driver's side. Water will get in even if the car is stationary, so it doesn't seem to be related to any sort of negative cabin air pressure phenomenon.

In 2000 there was so much water inside that I remember driving north on US 1 in Ellsworth ME, stopping for a traffic light and having a tidal wave of water rush forward from the rear floor pans, which being a bit lower than the front can hold quite a bit. There was enough water so that a pamphlet on the floor in the back made it all the way up to the pedal cluster! It's a hell of a lot better now, but I'd love to get this issue resolved this year. Any suggestions?

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Here's the latest new info I can provide, based on your suggestions:

The amount of water leakage as illustrated by the Ellsworth flood anecdote has diminished to just an annoying trickle, fortunately. I probable had multiple leaks, some of which I've probably fixed over time. If I just had a giant vat of silicone caulk that I could dip the whole car in ...

The drain hose is in place from the breather box. When I replaced it, I used a piece long enough to dump the water over the edge of the frame head bottom plate in an attempt to keep some of it from accumulating on top of the plate.

I've tried running water over the front of the car (I'm 95% sure that's where the water is finding it's way in.) There is no visible evidence of water under the hood, yet it shows up in the heater channel. I've found that placing paper towels in suspected leak areas helps to show for sure if any water came that way. Just for the sake of being clear, water will accumulate on the floor (coming out of the wiring harness hole in the heater channel) even if the car isn't moving, just by running water over the outside of the body. As my original post suggests, by process of elimination I'm suspecting the bolt holes where the fenders are attached, specifically those that are in the space behind the door hinges that the defroster hose runs through. I'm thinking maybe the original beading does a better job of sealing those holes, but I've thought that I had this problem solved at least a half dozen times before and been wrong. I'm going to silicone the fender bolt holes, both front and rear fenders just for insurance, and hope that this solves the problem.

So far I don't think there's been any serious damage to the car. When I see the water, I mop it up and the sheet metal can air-dry. The heater channels and floor pans were new in 2000, and reasonably well protected with POR-15: I sprayed it in all the holes in the HCs and the inside of the A-pillar. At some point I'm going to dump some bar-and-chain oil into those inaccessible areas in an attempt to keep new rust from getting established.

Just as an aside, I can't help but wonder what one might observe, over time, with a factory-new VW if there was no carpeting in place. That A post/heater channel junction seems to attract rust like a magnet! I remember the advertising and anecdotes that stressed the water-and-air-tightness of the cars, but over time problems could develop, as the seals harden and wear.

Thanks all!

Al Adams

Silicone isn't so good for this - paint will NOT stick to it, and it's HELL to remove. Use a urethane sealer next time. Also, If you used a acid cure silicone, it will cause rust where it toucehes metal. Nuetral cure is OK. Urethane is what professionals use. You can get it as a paint supply store.

Allan :-)