Timing

Is the engine getting enough cooling? How is the engine lid for ventilation, how is the temperature in the area, and are you using the doghouse style of engine cooling? What octane fuel are you using? I see you are in ZA so maybe things are different than in the USA. Is all of the cooling tin on this engine? Which spark plugs are you running?

Engine might be running lean. Engine might be running hot. Compression may be too high. Air getting inside of engine may be too hot. Not enough fuel getting inside of engine.

You might be able to block off the intake manifold heat riser so the intake manifold may stay cooler. I have seen some engine lids that are mounted slightly off the body to allow more air to cool the engine. Get fresh air to the air cleaner from outside of the engine compartment. You might remotely mount the oil cooler outside of the engine compartment to help cool off the oil.

BTW I think most engines run 'cooler' with a little more ign. advance and 'hotter' with a more retarded ign.

just some Q&As! later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris

compression

Since the engine likes it, then it's ok. The only problem is that you are loosing bottom end and you loose economy in traffic driving.

With a timing light, measure the full advance (3500 rpm, vacum hose disconnected). Then remove the distrubutor cap / vacum canister / points plate, and bend a bit the tabs limiting the centrifugal weights travel so that the dizzy gives less full advance. Now, reassemble the dizzy and time with the timing light to the same full advance as before. Then let it idle. You should now have more advance than before @ idle. Repeat until you have 7.5 degrees at idle and the desired advance at high rpms (full advance). Now you have the best of both settings.

Bill, '67 bug.

Drifting slightly - sometimes I wish I had just a two-position advance I could trigger from the cockpit: retarded for starting and full-advance for the rest of the time. I only drive this particular vehicle in the sporting manner. It should work, right?

Thanks that's a great idea, I'll definitely try it. I currently have round

30 degrees full advance, though it drifts slightly when the engine is at high revs.

Regards Kevin

Hi,

The engine isn't running lean in fact it's running slightly rich, all cooling tin and doghouse cooler attached and fully functional. I've just replaced my unslotted lid with a slotted one. The engine isn't running excessively hot, it's well within heat limits. As for compression ratio I'm not sure. I'm running highest octane fuel 97ron (I think) and I couldn't tell you what plugs I'm running only that they're NGK. I was thinking the plugs might be getting to hot, I'm thinking of replacing them with hotter plugs. Any suggestions as to what is a more heat resistant plug?

Regards Kevin

IIRC forgot to mention that sharp edges inside of the combustion area could also cause pinging. Could even be spark plugs that are slightly too long.

Are you running the oil bath air cleaner (supposedly makes for richer running at higher rpms) over the paper filters.

How do you know that it is running rich AT SPEED? Idle is one thing but maybe at higher RPMS and especially under load the engine could be running leaner and causing pinging. Do you run the engine at the higher RPMS then cut it off, let the car come to a stop and examine the spark plug electrodes colors?

It sounds like you are still running single port heads??? Maybe dual port heads might benefit you.

Do you have different gas stations to try different fuels?

just some more thoughts! later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris

Kevin, Are you running the stock vacum advanced distributor? You *do* realize; the 009 dist. retards the #3 cyl., in order to make the enigne run cooler. The reason is that the #3 cyl. runs hotter 'cause the oil cooler blows hot air across that cyl. But...I suggest you go to a remote oil cooler, then run the 050 dist. to eliminate the vacum advance. Also, are you running the air box with the flaps under it? I always take them off. I also always set the timming without a light: I set it up untill it kicks back, then retard it untill it starts well. Then I test drive it & if it pings retard it untill it quits. I usually wind up with more advance than normal, though. Of course I'm usually running at least one progressive two-barrel, often two. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

I'm running dual port heads. I know it's rich because I had a CO test done, at over 3500rpms. I have also examined the spark plugs after run the engine at high rpms. In fairness it's not running to rich but definitely not lean. I also have a stock oil bath filter. My problem is that the pinging occurs at low rpms under load, and even then only when really hot, so I doubt high rpm jetting would effect it anyway.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Regards Kevin

I'm running a stock double advance single vacuum dizzy, found on the late

1300 and 1600 twin ports. It has both mechancial and vacuum advance. It should need to retard the 3 cylinder as it is only in the in shoud coolers (found on the single ports) that the oil cooler is placed other the 3rd cylinder. I have a doghouse cooler where the oil cooler is recessed so the 3rd cylinder gets fresh air and the oil cooler's hot air is exhausted out an escape path at the back of the engine.

What I'm confused about is why it is pinging at stock timing, that shouldn't happen and has got me a bit confused. It only stops pinging when set to around 3-4 deg btdc!

Regards Kevin

Not all of them. The later 009 doesn't have the retard anymore.

jan

There is nothing to worry about. 30* full advance sounds normal.

There are many reasons that you may need different timing than stock. You might be running higher compresion ratio, or you are using an aftermarket pulley with the degree wheel a few degrees off (quite common), or you are using different fuel (unleaded) than the stock engine specs refer to (leaded). The head job also is a major factor that determines the advance curve. Anyway, the correct advance setting is just a bit retarded from the pinging point.

Bill, '67 Bug.

If your plugs are getting too hot, then you want a cooler set, not a hotter set.

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----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

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Thanks, my mistake. Do you have any you recommend?

Regards Kevin

Pinging on WOT and low RPM is classic knock. The cause is compression too high for the octane gas used. A hot engine may do this a little sooner, just because the mixture gets preheated and is a bit more likely to self ignite.

The only cure is to lower the compression or up the octane.

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----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

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Other options I thought you might like to try: Retarding the ignition, or changing the advancing of the distributor or the distributor itself. (dual vacuum pot will quickly advance ign. when vacuum drops) IIRC The dual should be running ATDC anyway! What about cooling down the intake manifold by blocking off the exhaust going through the heat riser portion of the intake manifold? Or increasing the cooling of the engine or the oil?

Is the engine clean or coated with dirt and crud from possibly any oil residue. Also clean up the fan blades to make sure that they are not clogged up.

Possibly cleaning any carbon that has built up in the combustion chamber.

just some more ideas! later, dave

You have to start by finding out what is recommended for your engine and then checking to see what you've actually got in there. If you're running the standard plugs your FLAPS should be able to show you how the maker's part numbers work so you can pick a cooler plug.

OTOH, unless there's something unusual about your engine, the standard NGK plugs should be fine. The quest for cooler plugs is usually a red herring.

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----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

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Also if it was running rich, the combustion chamber and piston top will have lots of carbon buildup, which after a hard run would glow hot enough to ignite the mixture.

Jan

If you are using NGK B6HS go to B7HS (1 number higher = 1 heat range colder on NGKs).

Bill, '67 Bug.

Thanks Bill,

I have just checked my plugs they are B6HS, so next time I buy plugs I'll move up to B7HS.

Regards Kevin