CIS and low compression...

New plugs. Try starting. Check plugs for fuel contamination/smell. That will tell you if you are getting fuel into the engine. If they are clean, no fuel smell at all, then fuel problems still exist. If they have some fuel dampness or smell, check spark.

Also try a non-contact timing light (inductive clamp on the plug wire for a spark test if you have one.)

Thanks Pete! Plugs are like new. Not getting fuel. Using Snap-on timing light. I take it you agree it "should" run at 55 - 60 psi compression? I don't know how "good" spark is, but the timing light does continue to show I have spark. I'm just ready to go have at it again (for a little while). I'll update at some point!

If you realy measured "only" 55psi then it must be leaking through the valves. Normal value is between 140...180psi! Acc to vw it is due for overhaul when it is dropped to about 105psi! You'll never get it started with almost no compression....

First check what the cause is for that low cyl. pressure! If the oil trick didn't make a difference then it must be bad valves or a very bad head gasket (unlikely)

SFC

I'm not sure it will. With 80 it would, but not well, never tried something that low. Keep in mind that it would 'fire' with low compression but might not start/run.

Do so, and update us.

I think hydrolic lifters play a role... I did finally get it running. Had to pull it up the street. Runs good, too. But still won't start by starter. It's just not cranking fast enough. The starter is just plain cooked and drawing way too much current. It's cranking like about 1/2 speed... although my 83 will start at that speed if battery is half dead (like after sitting all winter). So apparently it's a combination of slow starter and hard starting from the typical fuel ratio not ideal yet cis syndrome : ) I'm betting compression has come up after running it and building some oil pressure, but never did check it again. It had a coolant leak as well, so for all I know it's been cooked a bit... maybe valve springs are weak now? I don't know, but it didn't want to idle and I didn't dare let it run too long with the coolant leaking (hose off end of head) so I didn't do anymore tinkering. But I did drive it around the yard and out back and it runs smooth and strong... and I at least know now that the clutch is good, as well as 1st, 2nd, and reverse gears... yard too small for 3rd, 4th, and 5th : )

I was going to say that you need to start with the basics. Make sure the timing belt is correct. I have seen sooo many that were many notches off including my 1.8t engine when I bought it. Oh and it had good compression (150 psi) even for a low compression engine that was 4 notches off. Yes the engine could run but might not run at full power or might be hard to start. Your compression, especially with Hyd Lifters, might be low until the lifters pump up and the engine is warm.

THEN check the spark timing.

CIS usually needs that cold start valve to spray a little fuel inside the intake manifold to make starting easier.

Glad you got it started! ;-) Check out the main battery cable going to the starter and the main negative cable to the engine. I suggest taking them off and cleaning all surfaces.

JMHO

Hmm, could you explain this one. When the lifters are drained from oil they will not hold the valves open. Maybe after a head job when the springs were removed....

SFC

Have you ever heard an engine with hydraulic lifters start after sitting for a couple of months? Sometimes there is a rattle/tapping as the clearance inside of the lifter needs to be adjusted with oil or pumped up. So it might be possible that the lifters have collasped not allowing the valves to fully open and opening late & closing early. Just a theory and I can not recall ever seeing this before.

NOW I have seen the reverse, where the lifters pump up too much holding the valves open and engine loses compression. That was caused by an oil pump that developed way too much oil pressure.

Wild thoughts I know but possible! ;-) later, One out of many daves

Yeah, and "the basics" with an old Rabbit far beyond about any other car... : )

As soon as I new I had spark and could get fuel out an injector by lifting the air plate, I had pulled the timing cover and turned her over to TDC and timing was perfect. Of course, ignition timing at the distrib may still be off a tad but does need to be running to tune that in. And the clamping bolt still has a TON of ancient crud on it, so no-ones monkeed foolishly with it as a wrench had definitly not been on it.

Anyway, before finally towing it up the road with truck and chain... I did try checking valve clearance. At first, I didn't seem to have any at all (checking the several that were obviously on the low parts of the cam lobes). Then, after dismantling my stubby little feeler gauges so I could get in there better... it seemed I could fit about anything anywhere... on up to say 0.76 everywhere. THEN I realized I was actually moving the tops of the lifters downward, which I then found I could do quite easily with my finger. And here I was thinking this thing had solid lifters! So that's when I got thinking about maybe lack of oil pressure and the slow starter / limited cranking time... I had to throw it back together with the old gasket (that was already leaking) so the cover's coming back off anyway. I'll try checking the compression again at that time... after it can start and run... but still cold engine, just out of curiosity... and post the results.

I have yet to discover what the cold start valve is doing! All I did with that so far was look at it through the throttle body with my bore scope when I was doing an injector flow test. Injectors spray nicely (hope dealer still has some seals but I doubt it). Nicely balanced too. Within specs... about "Yay" much in each of the 4 Aquafina water bottles... : ) I still don't know why I could get it to at least fire once with starting fluid, though. I always thought that stuff would burn with zero compression.

The frequency valve is not buzzing, the throttle cable was totally adjusted wrong and obviously being used to jack the idle up. So I need to chase down the electrical side there and suspect if Lambda is dead, so it cold start, hot start pulse, warm start fade 5 yards and punt,... : ) I'm sure none of the multiple relay diagrams in Bentley quite match up... I really think VW used to use relays as toy blocks for the kids in the waiting area and what ever configuration they happen to leave them in was the order for that days assembly!

But first, I'll need to replace the starter. And since I slipped leaning over it and broke my nipple... the one that the little expansion tank hose goes onto... I'll be needing a new radiator, too. Doesn't that just SUCK! And while I'm in the suck department... one sloppy rod end in the front end is the extent of trouble there. Clutch works great but the pedal is slid over half off the pivot point and rubbing against the steering column. You guys know, down there at the bottom of the steering column where the bottom bearing has fallen out and is sitting on the little u-joint. All this (and the last paragraph) just part of "the basics" for an A1. But the wheel bearings sounded good via "chain drive" up the road : ). Brakes all sound and feel good. No 4 ways, heater blows one speed only, switch in the OFF position!, no wipers,... didn't try the aftermarket cd player yet... there's an undersized wire from under that going out to the battery that I won't be reconnecting out there... did I mention this is a Rabbit... but the battery terminals were already nice and clean (new one on the ground side) and I got all the extra ground wires hooked on nicely... including the one that had dissappeared under the fuel distributor... comes from ignition module... was the original "no spark" culprit..., who knows what the lights are doing, no horn either, so I got plenty to do. Oh yeah, and the stupid buzzer and oil light was going off, too! False alarm, I'm sure... as I've seen this on about a dozen Rabbits so far. Of course, I'll pipe up my oil pressure gauge to be sure, then bypass it. SOOOOOOO, it's sure nice to know it will run and drive before thinking about all the rest! Hopefully I'll at least have it starting and yard driving easily before it snows!

(VW repairs... make for interesting conversation... if you got nuthin to positive to contribute... just flame a Honda... ) In2hoppn

"dave AKA vwdoc1" wrote in message news:hc5lkc$1t4k$ snipped-for-privacy@adenine.netfront.net...

Hey all,

Just a brief update. Got a battery charger with a good boost for cranking and was able to start it by the starter! Then tracked down the no frequency valve buzz to a bad relay. It's amazing how much rust /muck you can dump out of a relay, clean it up, and have it working fine again! That gave me the old frequency valve buzz it needed. Then vantage meter on the cold start valve showed that to be working. Fired her up again, and it was pretty rough from being way to rich... had to back off the idle mixture screw a LONG WAY and then open the idle screw up and she purrs like a kitten and responds to throttle snap beautifully. I had set the mixture screw up higher at an earlier time, but not by THAT much. Next is to investigate O2 sensor (probably just pop a new one in unless it looks pretty new) and check out the dwell on that frequency valve. But first I got to replace the radiator... didn't dare run it any longer without coolant... don't particularily want to end up replacing the waterpump as it has no rad in it now. Radiator is supposed to be in today. Looking like it will be a driver soon!!!!!!!!

In2hoppn (silly rabbit, diesels is for trucks)

I can see the smile from here! lol

congrats and keep us updated!

I don't know why VW's are prone to do this. I've lost count of the number of relays I've opened, cleaned, burnished the contacts on, and reassembled!

Keep us posted on how you are doing once on the road!

Back again! I finally had to get rid of my old computer with windowsME that I been running since year 2000. So getting this new one up and running plus retrieving all my old data before clunking out the old one... left me with no news group access until now. "I will never buy another VW" "I will never work on another VW" "I hate fricken VW" ...wonder how many time I said that today... along with the colorful language I can't seem to give up... ... but I'm finally smiling again! Man, talk about getting wound up aggravated to the limit! Got some injector seal in her and replaced a cracked coolant flange. Well it started OK to drive in from out back and do that, but then it wouldn't start again! So I pull the plugs and clean and dry them, then it starts but doesn't want to idle. Then won't start again. Well finally get it running and idling again, and trying to get the ignition timing set and set the idle mixture and of course the idle speed, and how all these things can affect one another... and just when I finally think I've got it about right and the dwell meter is looking good but doesn't like the O2 sensor very much so I leave it unhooked... it starts idling way down again... THEN... coolant starts pumping out from under the cap and making a mess all over the place because the radiator fan ain't working! So, I get's that mess all cleaned up and then, of course, it won't fricken start again! Soooooo, I go to my favorite parts place for a starter (25 minute drive to get there) to discover they don't really have one there. But the store up the highway (another 1/2 hour or so away) "has one for sure". Get there, open the box... starter doesn't even look close... never even seen a starter quite like it on anything. So the guy insists it's the right one (LOL)... then suggests it's a "late model" in that year and looks at a year newer (I'm still laughin out loud, but it ain't funny) and tell him this isn't even a vw starter. Then I look at the number on the box (that he keeps saying is right) and see the number on the starter is different... wrong starter in the box. So off I go for another 1/2 hour drive to another store. Finally... the right starter... and after enough driving... get it home and installed... tripple square bolt heads that have been abused before (yup, was really luvin VW again) but.............. TA DA! It's spins a lot faster and for a lot longer! And it starts! Even without battery charger w/boost! Yeee Haaa! NOW... anybody got a good wiring diagram for the radiator fan in this rig? It's 1987 Cabriolet, and it has 2 wire fan, AND 2 wire connector on the radiator temp sensor. I had to swap the fan motor out when I changed the radiator. Wires had been spliced previously. Currently, both leads to radiator fan show continuity to ground so somethings wired wrong. Mitchell is useless for this car and my Bentley and Haynes only go to 1984. Looking at a variety of years in Mitchell shows double relays for a couple different multi-speed fan setups... both showing 3 prong temp sensor in radiator (mine has only 2). Another schematic shows circuit from fuse 1 to radiator temp sensor to fan to ground... no relay involved. I know the earlier ones had a relay for fan that was switched by the radiator sensor and would think this has a relay like that??????? Thanks if anyone can find a schematic that makes sense for this one! Maybe a relay panel diagram, too?? Electricals is such a pain without accurate info! OK, now to see if my computer is really going to post this message...

"PeterD" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Life may have it challenges but it is usually still worth living! Well you have success with your posts! Now are you running Windows 7 or Vista or XP?

Does your Cabriolet have a/c? I have seen the wiring changed so that the radiator fan gets it power almost directly from the battery (fused) instead of through a relay. Too many wiring diagrams to even try to remember how yours could be. You may have to follow those wires from the radiator fan switch to find out where they go! I usually find wires corroded right around the battery which might affect the fan's operation.

I find a lot of problems are usually caused by those that work on a VW before. :-( You might find some repair information, in English, here

I have the Bentley for the '88 cab, which IIRC is the same. I'll see if I can scan the fan electric page for you.

I'll need an email address to send it to you, so obfuscate yours and post it. (Don't email to my address in the forum, it's a dummy).

If you can't do that we'll figure out another way to get it to you.

But don't the scammers and spammers have de-obfuscate software now? So to totally obfuscate beyond de-obfuscation... it's me as you see me posted here and my provider is metrocast. Wouldn't mind the whole electrical schematic if you can, relay location if you got it... don't need any of the troubleshoot or r&r stuff! Thanks!

OK, found interesting stuff with the rad fan... but before warming her up for a test I decided to try to fix the clutch pedal which had slid off it's pivot pin and was half-cocked against the steering column... and clutch was engaging and disengaging this way. NOW, after fixing that, the clutch would not disengage... grind gears, or lurch if try to start in gear. SOOOOOOOO, I start adjusting the clutch cable... and adjust it some more, and some more, and some more and finally it will shift into gear... and now, it will not engage. WTF??? I bring the adjustment back almost to where I started and still it's JUNK (as is this whole car, sure with I never bought it, may just yank the starter and radiator and crush it). Can you really ruin a clutch by possibly over lengthing the cable housing by about 6 to 8 full turns so the the F thing will no longer engage? Maybe ended up pushing the rod in just a little too far and now it's screwed? But it's not like the clutch pedal stayed at the floor or suddenly went low. I did hit the starter while in reverse and it did lurch with quite a thump. Maybe that broke something?? This thing is JUNK I guess... I should have known better... every little thing I've tried to do on this turd has been insane... it will never be worth the cost of a clutch job...

Cancel the request for schematics... I'm done with it! I did get the cooling fan working properly! The short to ground was someone hack job of wiring a lighted switch at the dashboard (a wire I earlier thought was for the cd player). It was connected to an enclosed male spade plug that is apparently there for the A/C option? Removed that and traced it out to all being ready to go if the temp sensor actually closes when hot. Did finally run her up to temp and it's working great. Unfortunately, in between time I fixed the clutch pedal but then apparently wiped out the clutch when I hit the starter while in reverse. Now she don't move at all in any gear. Idling with clutch out I can shift into 3,4, and 5. I need to pust the clutch in to get 1st or reverse, so it's still doing something barely enough to turn the shaft. Clutch job is beyond what I can do here so it's all been a waste. What sucks is the total money I spent could have put new tires and struts in my Camry. No more dubbin for me. A lesson I thought I learned in the past and hope it sticks this time : ).

ahhhh don't throw in the towel, just put it off for a little while if you are frustrated. you have come sooooo far too. ;-)

clutch is doable! Now are you sure you did not lengthen the cable too far? gotta have some free play/slack! heck if starting in reverse just 1 time caused the clutch to go out, then it was going out very soon.

bottom line is.............do you want to drive this car?