Golf vs. GTI

In the early days of GTI, (pre '93) weren't most/all GTIs 16 valve? Or was that just an option for them. I think for the third generation, for a while, there was hardly any diffenence (a few "trim" items), and no 16 valve for a while. I haven't kept up much since '93.

I wish we could get some of those models here (common retort)...I used to have a GTI ('86) and went ahead and sold it to get my Golf so I could have

4 door hatchback (needed the extra doors...didn't want a Jetta)

I guess GTI is kind of a trim level, but also normally denotes extra performance (not always)...my '86 GTI was a 105 HP upgrade from the normal Golf, but otherwise pretty similar (but with performance tires, etc). Though Jettas come in VR6 form, I think only way to get VR6 in Golf is to get a GTI (or R32, or varient thereof)...not available in the 4 door Golf. The 1.8T Turbo engine was however available in the Golf (as well as GTI) for 2 years, 2000-2002, but for some reason, it was withdrawn from the Golf. VW doesn't seem to think 4 door hatchbacks should come with their higher-end engines for some reason (at least in US). But VW doesn't seem to offer the same high-performance, low cost (lesser trim) they used be known for...generally, you have to pay for higher trim levels to get the higher performance now.

The original GTI (in US) was a model of the Rabbit (back in 1983) but was called a Golf in Europe...guess we adjusted to their model names later (kind of like the former Datsun...Nissan name change back in early 80's in the US).

No. GTIs were 8V from their inception in the mid-late 1970s (Europe) and from 1983 in the US until about late 1987 or so. The 16V debuted then and remained in the US through 1992, so that's only about 5 model years of 16V GTIs prior to '93 even though the GTI dated back 10 years in the US and at least another 5 overseas..

A few of those years, 8V and 16V GTIs were offered side by side in the US lineup, so the 16V was sort of an "option" yes during those years.

diffenence (a few "trim" items), and no 16 valve for a while. I haven't kept up much since '93.

The 16V kept on going into the third generation Golf GTI in Europe. In North America for 1993, the GTI morphed (sadly) back into a Golf 2-door with sporty trim, interior, and suspension but also the same engine. It even lost the GTI name for a while in the US and was a "Golf Sport" from

1993-1995. The GTI name returned to the US for '95 with the VR6 model only that year. In '96 the 8V Golf Sport became a GTI again and ever since then we've had at least two engine options with GTIs...the VR6 and a 4-cylinder. They were 8V 2.0s up to somewhere around 2000 I believe it was (and was a mid-year change too) and then the 1.8 20V Turbo replaced the 2.0 8V while the VR6 continued. Overseas I'm pretty sure the GTIs were 16Vs probably around to the end of the 3rd gen's model run and then was a 1.8T for the 4th gen. VR6s were not in GTIs overseas...they were in high end Golfs sold as luxury models.

Bottom line though is that that GTI always was and still is a Golf-based car. No matter how it's badged or marketed, it starts with the same body and platform as a Golf. VWoA likes to badge it as "GTI" to further separate it from the Golf, but they're all Golf GTIs at heart no matter what the badge says. Lift up the trunk carpeting in my '91 and there's a build sticker that says "Golf GTI" even though VWoA badged and sold it as "GTI".

Alomost...B2 model in 4-door sedan form was sold as the "Santana".

And "Corsar" in Mexico (and other latin american countries?) for the B2 version.

Vento, and Bora.

And the 1st gen was "Atlantic" in Mexico and also resurrected as "Fox" in South Africa (no relation to other VW Fox models).

In most years, the North American GTi has had more engine, larger and lower profile tires, stiffer suspension, more supportive seats, "sportier" trim, and have been available as two door only.

Thanks for the responses but I'm still really confused. It seems to be a confusing subject? To generalize, a GTI is like a suped-up golf? It's the same as a golf except for an enhanced engine?

Maybe you're making more out of this than there really is. In general yes, it shares the body and many body parts, but typically much stiffer suspension, more powerful engine, in most years in NA, Recaro sports seats, etc...

Are you having trouble with the concept of a car model available in several revisions, where one is its sportiest model? VW is not the only one that does this.

Look at say for example the BMW 3 series

325i 330i 330ix or was M3

All the same base car with different options, but an M3 is the really sporty version, just like the GTI is the really sporty version of a Golf.

Audi Fox (50 or 80 in Europe I believe) wagon when I was like 2 years old.

Yes that too. The 1st generation Audi 80 (same car as the B1 Passat/Dasher) was called "Fox" in North America. The Dasher/Passat was hatchbacks and a wagon and the 80/Fox was sedans and the wagon. Same platform though. The

80/Fox was redesigned two years earlier (the 1980 80/4000 replaced it) while the Passat/Dasher didn't get replaced until 1982 with the Quantum/Santana/Passat/Corsar.

The Audi 50 was the same car as the Polo...never made it to North America.

Long story short, it's a Golf that's been souped up with a sportier suspension, trim, wheels, and usually a souped up engine overseas but the US and Canada had a few years here and there where the engine wasn't souped up over the regular Golf.

More or less, yes. The only things that really make my 2002 GTi any different from the Golf are it's engine (1.8T), minor suspension tweeks, larger wheels with better tires and GTi badges. Steve Grauman

Other way round. There was a car that debuted as the Audi 50 - VW was rather new to front-engined watercooled cars at that time - and later they took out the gas gauge, the glovebox, the interior light and ripped off some chrome and made it the first VW Polo.

Ingo

later they took out the gas gauge

So did they give you a stick or something?

Weird.

I assume you're talking about a mk.4 - generally (in Europe) the mk.2 and mk.3 GTIs are characterised by:

Bigger/'better' brakes; Different interior/exterior trim; Stiffer suspension; Different cylinder head/cam; Larger clutch; Higher gear ratios; Induction and exhaust differences; More weight, higher insurance and comparable fuel consumption ;-)

... than same-engine stablemates.

Rob

I think Rob's answer above is closer to fact. Your 2002 GTi should also have bigger brakes, different electrical harness, upgraded carpet and trim, dashboard computer, sportier steering wheel w/leather cover, ABS w/ASR, fog lights and, of course, the Factory sport seats w/lumbar support.

They don't appear any larger.

I wouldn't know. But considering the 1.8T probably needs connections the 2.0 and TDi don't, I wouldn't be surprised.

It doesn't appear to. The trim and floor mats that came in my car appear to be indenticle to that of a Golf.

What dashboard computer? Are you talking about the little screen that presents the dummy lights or the little screen that displays my total mileage? Steve Grauman