Some good news about the new Jetta

I work in the automotive industry, and read automotive related trade magazines.

We were having this very discussion one day - Hybrids/Diesels/Pure electrics... And how battery technology just isn't there, and won't be for a while - they are having trouble reducing weight, shortening charge times, increasing capacity and reducing costs... a lot of problems. People in the industry speculate maybe in 20 years or so, but probably longer.

There is a strong drive for gas/diesel still (which is hindering progress for development of new technology)... and while hybrid technology is pushing battery technology further, it's a slightly different direction (the Hybrid battery being more like a super-capacitor- quick to charge.... but range is pretty limited)

Ideas like having a battery of standard size, that you plug in to a slot in your car... goto the "gas" station and swap for a fresh one, and have them charge your old one, and you getting a new one from them were shot down due to the costs involved in storage of so many large cells, people not wanting to handle batteries (they're heavy and potentially dangerous), and the fact that you could be stuck with a battery that can't be charged anymore (it happens... batteries fail)... A charger at home is great, but the current draw would be quite a bit if it charged a battery quickly - even if it charged a battery at 60amps per hour - you would still be using more then 60 amps of current to supply the charger (unless your houses power system operates at a higher voltage then your cars battery)... a normal homes maximum is either 100A or 200A (60A/Hour going by if you have a 120V-DC battery, and a 120V-AC supply, running thru a perfect efficiency rectifier and power supply (they don't exist).... If they made the batter a higher voltage (say 240V) and at 60A/Hour.... which is pretty low, really... then your houses charging system would pose an even greater demand on your houses electrical system - you would need 120A/hour to charge the battery with only

120V-AC supplying the charger... this is pretty astronomical).

Truth is, from what anyone at work has heard (some of our management talks to GM, Ford, Chrysler etc... other auto companies) no one has really figured out a cheaper to build and more effective fuel efficient vehicle then the hybrid right now.

And... BTW 60A/Hour at 120VDC is only 7200W/Hour... which is only around

10Horsepower.... I just used 60A/Hour since it's a fairly common current capacity of an automotive battery/alternator combination, tho my voltages used were 10 times higher then a normal car battery... I picked the voltage of 120V since this is household voltage... and somewhat more realistic to drive a motor which would be powering an electric car.

I used to, but I've been watching the fuel cell developments with casual interest. They're about good enough to run a cellular phone now, but whoa! Expensive! There's work going on to increase the energy density and cost, but it's gonna probably be awhile before it's usable, much less practical.

I think that's the way it will go if electrics work tho'. Battery charging is just too onerous. With a fuel cell, just add the fuel components until you're done, then stop. No recharging required.

For just around town, electrics are doable now. For further range, hybrids work. If you need more sitz spotz tho', neither one yet powers a minivan or SUV.

Mark '95 Jetta GLS

That really has very little to do with the viability of EVs, but that is the American automobile industry "party line". As has been shown over and over again, most drivers in this country, on average, travel well under 50 miles on their daily excursions. That is easily within the capability of an EV, and as I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread, the Toyota RAV4 EV was capable of more than twice that distance between charges.

As for batteries being decades away that are capable of much longer distances, you haven't been paying attention. For example, EV enthusiasts have already driven the entire 250 miles between LA and Las Vegas without a single stop for recharging - and at freeway speeds - in an EV powered by Li-Ion batteries. That trip from LA on I15 to Las Vegas included two climbs, the Cajon Pass and Baker Grade, both with about 3500 feet of elevation gain. Not only that, but several university engineering departments have been breaking all kind of EV distance records during the past 5 years - recently with the use of laptop batteries.

So it is really a stretch to say the technology is not there. It is, and it will get better quickly if we just let it.

Jim B.

Sure it is. *Most* of the time.

I don't drive 400 miles *every* day, not even most days. But what am I supposed to when I need to take that occasional 250-mile road trip to Boston, or Ocean City? Or it's the holidays and I need to make the

200-mile round trip to see the folks?

Must be nice to have multiple vehicles. Those of us who don't have to choose one that covers the largest possible range of possibilities, which for many people rules out EVs.

-- Mike Smith

It might be acceptable to have a shorter range *if* the charging is fast. Like, say you could get a 50% charge (200 miles) in a few minutes, but to get a 100% charge took a couple of hours (i.e. overnight) - I think most people could live with that.

-- Mike Smith

You still haven't answered how long it takes to charge a completely flat battery.

I live in Canada, it gets to -40C in the winter... I take long trips (500Kms to Ottawa, slightly more to Montreal, almost 400Kms to North Bay) and these trips are pretty common for the other Canadians I talk to.... some of us own cottages up North where services are not availible (electric even in some cases... if you want to to really remote).

In the early 80's they had some prototype 3 cylinder diesel hybred rabbits with a generator/starter/tourque converter instead of clutch and flywheel. Popular Science did a write up of it. Of course they never crossed the pond.

JoBo

Now you are nit-picking, trying to make a point out of something (instant recharge) which has never been a requirement for a reliable EV.

What do you mean, it's not a requirement? Of *course* it's a requirement. What are you supposed to do if you run out of juice on a road trip? Get a hotel for the night? Petro-fueled cars can be refueled in a few minutes; people have come to expect this capability. Therefore, EVs must have this capability if they are to ever gain mass acceptance.

-- Mike Smith

Nonsense.

Your logic is yours.

It's what I've been arguing all along... I won't buy a car I can't fill up/re-charge in more than, say 5-10 minutes.

Even if I just lived in the city, and went to work with my car... I might take it on a long trip once every so often, and I wouldn't want to rent a car.

Well, *there's* a counter-argument for ya.

-- Mike Smith

That depends on the battery and charging technology.

-- Mike Smith

Always put quotes around the word "news" when used in the vicinity of the Fox Network.

mayforecast a step in the charge time thing.