How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days?

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On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:04:58 -0700, "Michael Pardee"


My '64 Plymouth Belvedere had it's share of problems, but I couldn't afford a Lexus at the time, even if they had existed.
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You guys and gals forget that a kar, no matter what brand it may be, a car will not perform unless the driver knows how to drive...my AWD Lexus corneres better than any German or US rear or front wheel drive I have ever owned or rented....
Sure every brand of car has its inherent roadworthiness, and sure you can't put a car through its paces any more without getting a ticket from John Law, so we are left with really two choices, styling appeal/ comfort and, no hidden surprises, ergo reliability.......
in the first case, it is very judgemental, the Audi grille is about as ugly as they come with their pseudo Olympic logo etched in Kapital Letters, and the Japanese designs are not very innovative either (witness the Nissan taillights), but in the case for not leaving you stranded or with a hefty repair bill, the Japanese outshine all others, US, European and other Asian brands combined, except perhaps for the Koreans, but there I am still on the learning curve.......
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So, you owned a VW Beetle and rented a Ford Tempo?
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I have the same thought too. McBrue comments to me is always 'blah- blah-blah", doesn't make sense at all.
It seems like he spent $70K on a car just to bitch about it.
Don't you know how to 'test drive' before purchasing car ?
V.

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On 6 May 2007 07:41:55 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com graced this newsgroup with:

you're making the dangerous assumption that he even owns one.
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Oh you poor poor man. What a sad life you must lead. My heart goes out ot you.
Shut the fuck up and go get a corrolla like you deserve, asshole.
--
-----------------------------
I only talk like that in the movies
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This someone who has determined he is a DRIVER because of the advertising that is aimed at simple souls such as himself . European cars rely on their aloof snob appeal knowing full well that their quality and reliability can not match that of Japanese and in many cases American vehicles.
wrote:

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Snob appeal is alive and well, both with European brands, and with Japanese, too. Big surprise: the luxury segment is *defined* by snob appeal to some extent. You think a Cadillac Escalade owner isn't feeling snobbish? You think that idiotic Hummer driver doesn't think he's the man?
People don't buy Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Porsche, or even Audi because of "utilitarianism" or "value". They buy them because they feel they're getting something beyond the ordinary, and they can pay the price.
But pretty much every one of these brands is aiming for certain market niches, in many cases slightly differentiated from each other by subtle "leanings".
Anyone who's been awake for the last decade (and who isn't delusional) *knows* that Lexus has staked out a territory defined by certain characteristics:
a) perceived high reliability and build quality b) isolation from the driving experience c) enough performance to placate owners who prefer "b)" d) exclusivity and snob appeal e) market segment-competitive "electronics"
Have you even watched a single Lexus commerical? Yes, there are some that seem to stress performance, but how about the ES series? Oh look, the robots are sensuously fondling the car. Oh look, not a bit of sound intrudes upon your driving experience. Oh look, I don't have to know how to parallel park (LS). Some "driver's car". Give me a break.
I doubt the typical BMW owner ranks "reliability" tops. They sure as hell wouldn't rank "isolation" high either. Their electronics, in terms of I-Drive, are almost universally reviled. But performance? Got a Lexus you'd like to line up against an M3?
I have an Acura. If I could afford it, I might look at a BMW or Mercedes. A Lexus doesn't ring my chimes: too Buick-like. Sorry. But that's my opinion, and hopefully you're not too insecure in *your* purchase decision to get upset about it.
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snip

snip
While I generally agree with this assessment lets not forget that for the VAST majority of drivers the speed difference between a Lexus and BMW (with similar HP to weight ratio) being hustled down a public road won't amount to anything significant. And if you live where winter ravages the roads, a softer sprung car is sometimes faster.
The RWD Infiniti cars prove BMW and MB don't have a lock on "drivers car" territory. To be fair, any owner of a RWD sports car (lots of Miata owners out there) already knows this better than any sedan driver. I'll go out on a limb and predict that once GM's new RWD sporty cars hit the market and more folks get exposed to RWD dynamics that BMW/MB mystique is gonna fade.
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wrote:

And Lexus doesn't make RWD cars.... except, of course, the IS, the GS and the LS.
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Don't forget the SC!
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Oops, and to think I've owned two of them (first generation).
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Not yet, but I hear performance Lexuses are coming in the future in the F series. But your observation seems accurate. Many people do like being isolated from the road. I myself would like to get from A to B in as much comfort as possible.
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On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:37:11 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"

The IS-F, in dealerships in early '08, will cost about the same as an M3, be about the same size, and have about 70 more horsepower.
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The BMW M3 has 420 hp. That would mean the IS-F would have 490 hp. I heard Lexus say power would be over 400 but I haven't heard anyone say whether it would be 490.
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An M3 has 333 hp.
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wrote:

In the "future vehicles" section at bmwusa.com, BMW says that the new M3 will have 420 HP.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
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On May 8, 11:34 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

2008 Corvette will have a 430 HP engine standard. Weighs a bit less than those sedans, too. Corvette's not a luxury car? Well, if Dave can tell me the Lexus LS is a driver's car, I can call the 'Vette a luxury car, OK?
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First, I never said that.
Second, you can call a head of lettuce a kumquat for all I care, that won't mean the rest of the world will have to abide by your rules. Whatever arbitrary standards you've decided make a car a "driver's car", they're yours, not mine.
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[snip ...]

Yup, sounds good to me ...
DaveW: so I guess you don't have a Lexus you'd stack up against an M3 *right now*, do you?
We're not talking "woulda coulda shoulda" here, or what might be available, depending if said Lexus really does come with that much HP, and I suppose depending if the M3 doesn't change, and depending if the Lexus isn't "portly" and hampered by excessive weight added by the need for more coddling and comfort ...
Going out on a limb here, I'd say an early 70s Datsun 510 was more of a "driver's car" than most any Lexus so far ... =8^o Kumquat, indeed.
--
Kikune M



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