On Fri, 11 May 2007 21:32:02 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
"Stack up against"? That entirely depends on personal preference,
It's a matter of taste. I'd much rather drive my GS430 than an M3.
Otherwise, I'd have bought an M3.
Comfort is a positive attribute to me.
You're way out on that limb. This whole concept of "driver's car" is a
little fuzzy to me - is it more desirable to have a harsher
suspension, hard seats and more noise in everyday traffic conditions?
I don't race on public streets, and like most M3 owners, my car will
never see a racetrack.
I agree, everyone has their own tastes, likes and dislikes.
Hmmm, so a "driver's car" equates to racing on public streets?
I suspect many of those who prefer a "driver's car" want a car
that communicates what it's doing, and one that is dependably
responsive to their input.
I think your statement about a "driver's car" concept being fuzzy
is a bit disingenuous, though. You know what we're talking about,
and you know, however good your Lexus is, that it doesn't fit the bill
in that respect. If those attributes don't matter much to you, fine.
Just don't pretend that there's something wrong with people who do
appreciate them, or that your vehicle is superior. It isn't.
How's this: a driver's car is fun to drive, for those who enjoy that sort of
For others, we have Buicks ...
And Lexus ...
Sorry, Buick owners, that was unfair.
On Mar 23, 1:33 am, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
IMHO, in the USA, the only one having a significant cool-down is
Acura. Honda decided to invest more in light trucks than in cars so
all Acura has to offer are warmed-over, FWD Accords (Acura TL and
TSX), an over-priced RL and SUVs. Their SUVs may be good all weather
highway vehicles but they're too late to market. On the other hand,
you can make quite a good deal on a TL.
Lexus (Toyota's luxo-brand) is doing very well with new products in
the pipeline. Infiniti (Nissan) is attempting to meet BMW's
performance standards with their G35/G37 sedan/coupe and M35/M45. As
another poster explained, those who lease a car for the life the
warranty are probably still buying BMW but those who hold onto a car
longer are probably going to buy from either of the more reliable
Infiniti or Lexus brands. MB and Audi both are attempting to address
significant quality control issues.
On 22 Mar 2007 22:33:49 -0700, email@example.com wrote:
I saw an article that says Lexus is going to introduce some super-lux
models so yes, they seem to agree with your basic observation.
Acura, just doesn't seem to care, they make money on what they have
even without an NSX for image, but really what did the NSX ever do for
I still wish Honda/Acura would put out some V8 vehicles, but the RL
body is probably just a little tight for it, and the cost of building
on a new body is too high. They'd probably sell some in SUV bodies,
but high powered FWD utilities vehicles wouldn't shock or awe anybody.
But hey, an S4000 (or Acura badge whatever) to go against the X8 ...
... would harsh their fleet mileage, too.
I doubt we will ever see V-8 powered Hondas. Honda's view seems to be
that the V-6 is all the motor any street car ever will need. Remember
that Honda is led first and foremost by engineers, everyone else is
supporting cast. The engineers see a future where more fuel efficiency
is needed and don't see any reason to make bigger more fuel thirst
engines. They really don't care that this means ignoring certain market
segments. Toyota and Honda obviously have different operating
principles. Toyota is focused on the mission to provide a vehicle for
every purse and purpose, as Alfred Sloan of GM's great years famously
said. Honda is a rifle shot competitor which takes as it's prime
directive "being a company society wants to have exist". Honda thus
puts it's speculative money and effort into small jet airplane
development and robot development while Honda's products are rifle shots
at particular market segments. It is interesting that in Japan Honda is
now the #2 automaker behind Toyota after unseating Nissan from that
spot. Considering that when Honda first moved up from motorcycles to
automobiles the Japanese government tried to stop them this is a very
interesting development. Also, Honda has far fewer base designs and
models than does Toyota. Basically Honda has the Civic platform, the
Accord platform, the Odyssey platform, the Fit platform. It is truly
stunning how many successful products they spin out of those.
Well I know, and that's probably true, now that they're finally
getting into turbos, too, if only with the 4 so far here in the US,
... but I can still wish!
Yeah, I grok marketing, at least a little. I admit, from an
engineering point of view, there's little need.
Yes, well, I support and admire Honda for their vision, but even so,
as a skeptic or cynic or something, and this is a marketing and
finance perspective, they simply target the highest-return segments.
But note there have been and are exceptions, the NSX being the
biggest, but I wonder if the S2000 turns a profit, either. Doubt it.
A V8 would come in under the same heading, only it would probably cost
If Honda ever decides to open a product branch of $100k++ automobiles,
that would justify the V8. No straight 5's or V10's, please, it just
ain't natural! And not having a straight six, I can't see them jumping
to a V12. Just as well. Unless they want to get into $200k++.
Y'know, something for Paris Hilton to drive to the store to pick up
some cookies, and run out of gas in on the way home.
On Mar 23, 1:33 am, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Don't know your age group, but when I was a kid in the fifties, an
Oldsmobile super 88 was the supercar, way before the Pontiac
Bonneville appeared on the scene. Why? Because it performed close to
a muscle car of the sixties, otherwise the drive train was identical
to a Chevy's.... would I buy a supercar today, yes, I would opt for a
Mercedes, had two in fact before my Lexus GS300.... why did I pick
Lexus or rather Japanese over the Germans, because (1) Everything was
included essentially in one package, no funky long list of options
especially like on a GM or BMW product, also (2) Going back to the
dealer is expensive, and Japanese cars essentially are change the oil
and rotate the tires... if you need a (3) Higher resale value, which
may be moot when talking about the Germans, but certainly a propos
when thinking of a domestic product...
Lexus is a great disappointment if you have ever driven a Mercedes. It
is a noisy, rough, small car engineered for show, not go. It is not
even civilized. It is just not a luxury car. But it is about 30,000
cheaper than a Mercedes which accounts for its popularity. The thing
that got me to buy one was that my wife has had two of the mini-ES
cars and they have not needed much repair. The first one, a 1993, blew
its tranny which was normal for that year. The second one has rotten
brakes, but so does my crappy LS430. The Mercedeses needed constant
repair. Every 3 years they stranded me beside the road. But the Lexus
needs constant oil and service - every 5000 miles. And then some
little motor burns out or something, so you go to the stealership just
as often as with a Mercedes. Am probably going back to the Mercedes
and buy a little dodge neon to put in the trunk or something. At least
the Mercedes is engineered for go and it does go when it isn't broken.
And the Mercedes is comfortable and logical and does not have blind
spots engineered in.
Many of these reliability problems you cite may just be individual
variation. You can have a look at the reliability surveys, which take
into account many people's experiences with cars, and this gives
better results because it doesn't overstate the experience of a few
With regards to the noise, the Lexus LS460's interior has sound rating
of about 20 decibels. On an average car it's about 40 decibels. Which
Mercedes were you referring to when you said the Mercedes is quiete?.
You need to specify the model, not just the brand because different
models are different even if they share the same brand.
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