is250 vs. 325i

Pardon me, but that's utter and complete bullshit.

Some years ago I used to receive the monthly mag of the ADAC, the largest German motorists' organization (equivalent to UK's AA but many more members and, I suppose the USA's AAA), quite regularly. Once a year they would publish their breakdown/rescue stats, which made interesting reading. Only brands that sold more than 10 000 cars per year were included.

It was a very rough-and-ready table but put three Japanese brands at the top (seemingly most reliable) in every class they were represented. I recall Mazda and Toyota - maybe Honda was the third.

Thing is, the results were not normalised for usage. Thus Merc S-Class performed relatively poorly in these tables but what was omitted was the fact that such cars tended to be very high-mileage vehicles.

Make of it what you will.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

No, that's been my experience. You may not agree. That's ok reaosnable people disagree all the time.

I'll be the first to admit that, I don't have much confidence in the new cars. But if you can afford a Maybach you probably don't care.

I did see an old 240Z yeterday but the point remains you don't see many old Japanese cars. I imagine getting parts for them might be an issue but I'm just guessing.

Ironically the motor in that 240Z is a copy of the MB 6 from that era.

Copy copy copy.

Actually, the old 240Z from 1970-73 had a 2.4 liter engine that was bulletproof. It was a larger version of the engine used in the old Datsun

510 (1968-73). The main problem with those old Datsuns wasn't the engine or lack of parts, but that the steel body on them were so thin that most rusted out, even here in California.

In general, Toyota/Lexus may be a bit more reliable than BMW. However, you buy a BMW for the way it drives. If you don't notice a difference or can't appreciate it, then get the Toyota.

Btw, if you look under the hood of a Lexus, most parts say Toyota, so yes, it is a TOYOTA!

I would forget the IS 250 and 325I and look at the IS 350 and 330I. I went through the same decision and ended up with the IS 350. The 330I was a very nice looking car and had the best ride of anything that I have driven, but the IS 350 has lots of power and lots of cool gadgets. The IS 350 also has a very good ride, and since I spend most of my driving time stuck in traffic, the curve handling performance is not important.

It is also cool to turn on the Power button, disable the VDIM, and smoke your tires in the IS 350!

Look under the hood of a Benz and the parts all say Daimler-Chrysler.

So they're nothing but Chryslers. Interesting...

...which, considering the method of acquiring the data, is statistically insignificant.

well, actually, now-a-days they don't use bulbs at all. L.E.D.s

Yeah. What's your point? Does this somehow relate to a BMW?

Good thing most of us in the lexus and bmw newsgroups don't give a rats behind about MBs...

All cars? They may look like LEDs but often aren't. And are usually restricted to top of range models.

Go with the Lexus. Trust me. If I had it to do over again, I would never have bought this German car. I will NEVER buy another German car.

----- Kill ratio of Palestinian children to Israeli children 5.7-to-1, Israel's favor. Kill ratio of all Palestinians to Israelis: over 3-to-1.

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"Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." ---Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 2001

As far as parts prices, BMW parts are really no more expensive than for any other make, as far as my observations are concerned. The problem with BMW is reliability. Except for the engines (which may be the best in the world), BMW owners can expect failures in other systems, and often.

----- Kill ratio of Palestinian children to Israeli children 5.7-to-1, Israel's favor. Kill ratio of all Palestinians to Israelis: over 3-to-1.

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"Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." ---Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 2001

My Japanese cars have been *exceedingly* inexpensive to maintain, and as reliable as an anvil.

----- Kill ratio of Palestinian children to Israeli children 5.7-to-1, Israel's favor. Kill ratio of all Palestinians to Israelis: over 3-to-1.

---------

"Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." ---Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 2001

All Honda Accords use LEDs now.

What was once top of the line, comes down to the pedestrian and entry models within a few years. LEDs are no different.

There's no bias towards German cars at all in that post . . . from someone that sells Mercedes parts. I am also biased, as I have an IS350.

When thinking of long term costs, it is possible that German cars are cheaper. Remember how mechanics/dealers get cheaper parts, other cars that break. With more German cars breaking in the long term, there will be more available parts, increasing the supply, and dropping the price :-)

-b

Richard Sext> > >> >

I suspect that this statistic only includes regularly scheduled maintenance. In other words, it probably assumes no repairs.

It would be interesting to see cost of ownership statistics that factor in the well-known difference in repair history between Lexus and BMW and/or MB.

But dollar cost isn't the only measure. I put a significant value on the time I spend in the repair shop and the stress that time adds to my life.

You guys talk about the "driving experience." My "driving experience" is greatly diminished when my car is in the repair shop. Also, when both cars are operating properly I *prefer* the Lexus ride.

Actually, I was a little surprised that the figures, which are broken out on the web site, included both maintenance and repairs. I don't know about Toyota's warranty, but for the 2003 330i there shouldn't be expenses for either for another couple of years - maintenance and repairs are covered by the respective warranties. I went to the dealership recently to get a bulb for my left headlight, and everyone kept trying to convince me to bring it around to the service department to fix it.

I'd be interested as well. I currently keep Excel spreadsheets for both my BMWs, but there's not much there yet - the only expenses have been fuel, insurance, and 4 light bulbs (one turn signal on the 325i, the Z4 driver's side headlight mentioned above, and two Philips bulbs when I decided to go with brighter headlights on the Z4). Oh, I also added the Auxiliary Audio Kit to both cars to play my mp3 player through the stereo, which was ~$100 for the kits - I installed them myself. epbrown

-- "Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car; most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus

2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

I don't sell parts and don't make a cent off any parts sold. I've been answering the question "where can I get parts" for so long I simply include it ina sigfile so I don't have to answer it any more.

Fantasy. 90% of the parts for a 50's 190SL are still available from the factory. Try getting a door handle for a 240Z and lemme now how that works out.

German cars age well. They're meant to be repaired. There's lots of old ones about. Japanese cars don't age they're recycled into cans.

In the short term, say after the warrenty expires to about 10 yrs perhaps Japanese cars are cheaper to maintain (although this wasn't my experience with a half dozen of them) but longer term? Fuggetaboutit.

While the warrenty is in effect it's all the same.

Keep in mind my newset car is 23 years old. Maybe it's me but I don't see a lot of 23 year old Japaense cars running around.

You no doubt like your car(s) and I like mine and I'm happy for that but I spent a lifetime finding out my dad was wrong about the cost of fun cars. And I'd hate to think anybody made a decision to buy a Japanese car over one that was more fun because of something stupid somebody said on usenet.