I have been using Craftsman hand tools for years without any problem. I personally don't care for the very glossy chrome finish like Snap On Tools.
And the price seems to be reasonable with their life time warranty.
Those chepo Chinese/Taiwanese tools are for kids. Unless you want a bolt to be rounded keep them away from heavy duty use.
Ever hear of New Brunswick? My school auto shop had a bunch and I thought
> they were great. As I recall, they had some Proto tools as well. >
> Well, being a poor boy, I collected Craftsman tools. They're roughly
> finished for the most part, not like their latest versions. Mine are made
> in the U.S.A. Today, I believe, some of the Craftsman line are imported. >
> I also have a few Snap-On tools and they are like fine jewels. Snap-On
> sells direct to the pros from mobile sales trucks. Their quality is
> unquestionably the best, but so are their prices the highest.
>
> Does anybody have an opinion about Taiwanese tools? Outwardly, they
> resemble Snap-On in their finish and sell for remarkably low prices. Do
> pros use them? Is the quality through and through with quality alloys and
> heat treatment or they promoted on their cosmetic atributes? I have
> noticed that some famous brands like Black and Decker and Stanley are
> importing from Taiwan.
>
> Any opinions on Chinese tools? They look robust and generally have a good
> finish. I bought a Chinese-made breaker bar handle in 1/2 inch drive and
> it works just fine. I know the discount tool stores sell a lot of Chinese
> stuff, particularly impact tools and they're cheap and look robust, fit for
> the purpose.
>
> Every professional mechanic loses tools now and then. I would hate to have
> a Snap-On item disappear, but wouldn't cry over it if it was a low cost > import.
>
> With pros, is it a mandatory status symbol to own a complete Snap-On
> collection, or have they gravitated toward imports already?
>
I have a Snap-on box bought new in '85 and no doubt it is a dammed good tool box. Would I spend that kind of money again??, nope. There are many other boxes out there that do the job just fine and cost about 1/4 as much. I have some Snap-on and Mac tools but the majority of them are SK and now the Craftsman Professional line. I just can't see the price the tool trucks are getting. There is a local tech college in town where the automotive/diesel students can purchase complete sets of Snap-on tools for half price. This tells me they make way too much off everybody else.
I am with you on that. Of course it helps that my wife works for Corporate Sears, and gets a substantial discount..... :^)
I am also on the side of utility, but Craftsman has come out with some really nice looking tools as of late.
| > Well, being a poor boy, I collected Craftsman tools. They're roughly | > finished for the most part, not like their latest versions. Mine are made | > in the U.S.A. Today, I believe, some of the Craftsman line are imported. | >
| > I also have a few Snap-On tools and they are like fine jewels. Snap-On | > sells direct to the pros from mobile sales trucks. Their quality is | > unquestionably the best, but so are their prices the highest. | >
| > Does anybody have an opinion about Taiwanese tools? Outwardly, they | > resemble Snap-On in their finish and sell for remarkably low prices. Do | > pros use them? Is the quality through and through with quality alloys and | > heat treatment or they promoted on their cosmetic atributes? I have | > noticed that some famous brands like Black and Decker and Stanley are | > importing from Taiwan. | >
| > Any opinions on Chinese tools? They look robust and generally have a good | > finish. I bought a Chinese-made breaker bar handle in 1/2 inch drive and | > it works just fine. I know the discount tool stores sell a lot of Chinese | > stuff, particularly impact tools and they're cheap and look robust, fit | for | > the purpose. | >
| > Every professional mechanic loses tools now and then. I would hate to | have | > a Snap-On item disappear, but wouldn't cry over it if it was a low cost | > import. | >
| > With pros, is it a mandatory status symbol to own a complete Snap-On | > collection, or have they gravitated toward imports already? | >
I do helicopter work and often we are forced to use Snap-On, Mac, etc. (due to tight space tolerances), but more and more I am finding that the Craftsman line suits my needs. My own tools are probably 60% Snap-On with the rest mainly Craftsman, although I use some Blackhawk, Proto, and SK. I believe the main line of Craftsman is now made by SK. Whenever I need a new tool now I check Sears first. They have been doing well for me and *never* hassle me about a replacement. I do use cheap Asian tools, but I keep them around just to cut up or weld into something else. Be careful if you choose to use cheap tools; they can get you hurt easily when they break (...and they will).
"New Brunswick"? I have some "New Britian" which, as I recall, was actually from the same mfr. that has (had?) the Sears Craftsman contract.
To me, the best tools ever were Williams. I guess they folded ~20 years ago, now Snap-On bought / uses the name. Those guys are really more of loan sharks than tool vendors.
Proto's been fine over the years, too. But for convenience, proce, warranty ease, and price (when on sale), you can't beat Craftsman.
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The following excerpts were posted on one of the mailing list I subscribe to. I though the information was worth sharing.
I've tried to contact the original authors to get their permission, but did not get any replies to my emails. Since this information is available via one of several archives, I feel that I can present it here. However, the authors names have been removed from the discussions. (If they would like credit - please contact me.)
(ED. I was informed on July 5, 2000 that Stanley has a complaint filed against them via the Federal Trade Commission as of June 2, 1999.)
... but I never could figure out who makes the [Craftsman] hand tools. To which someone else replied:
I'm not the final word on tools by any means, but since I work in the business, I've learned a little bit about it. Okay, here's more than you ever wanted to know.
Lowes now (as of earlier this year) is selling a line of Mechanics Tools called Kobalt which is made by Snap-On. They are good tools.
(ED: I've received 3 follow up emails; updating the information about who is making Kobalt tools: The first is from Bob Payne of Cornwell Tool Distributor - He indicates that Kobalt is not made by Snap-On. The second is from Heidi Schuck of Husky Tools with more information on Kobalt tools not being made by Snap-On.) The third from Dave Johnson about the new vendor for the Kobalt line of tools.)
Home Depot's Husky brand is made by Stanley Mechanics Tools, a division of the Stanley Works. Husky are also good tools and have a good lifetime warranty (they'll even replace your broken Craftsman with an equivalent Husky).
Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas, Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.
Stanley also owns MAC Tools and manufactures MAC tools in the same plants. Now here's the kicker: MAC Tools, Proto Tools (a very expensive industrial brand), Husky Tools, and, (prior to five or so years ago) Craftsman Tools are all made from the same forgings in the same plants. Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and industrial customers (including General Motors).
There are three MAJOR players in the USA mechanics tool business: Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Stanley and Danaher (almost identical in sales revenue at about $28 billion each) are the biggest followed by Snap-On. Each of these three manufacture and sell tools under a variety of brands (there are many other brands that Stanley makes that I haven't even named). The quality between these three manufacturers is roughly the same. I know its a bit of a let-down to hear that, but its a simple fact.
There are a hand full of other minor players (Vermont American, etc) and an endless list of Taiwanese import tool companies (some of which Stanley own as well as Danaher to serve the lower end consumer import brands at WalMart, etc). How do I know all of this? I work for Stanley Mechanics Tools, specifically with the Proto Industrial brand. I personally do not think that MAC, MatCo, or Snap-On branded tools are worth the extra markup since they use the same forgings and manufacturing processes that make Husky and Kobalt and pre-1994 Craftsman. Where you need to pay attention are things like ratchets and torque wrenches. There are different specifications of ratchets and you do pay for the difference. Some mechanics require a finer, more precise ratcheting mechanism than guys like me who just bang around in the garage on the weekends.
By the way, Metwrench is basically considered a "gimick" infomercial tool brand that is not considered as a serious competitor to Danaher, Snap-On, or Stanley. Then again, IBM once didn't see Microsoft as a serious force in the personal computer business. Hmmmm....
(Two more brands that I don't know much about is Black & Decker and DeWalt. About Sept. 2002 I received an email stating that B&D owns DeWalt. Though I haven't confirmed this yet.)
----------------
Then there was this discourse on FACOM brand tools:
FACOM is Franco-Americaine de Construction d'Outillage Mecanique. French for "French-American Mechanical Tool Manufacturing". Got points in my french class for that.
FACOM owns S-K outright. You'll notice (if you look through the catalogs from preceeding years) that the tools are becoming more and more alike. The S-K "pro" screwdrivers are now FACOM ergotwist screwdrivers. The "tuff1" ratchets are S-K pro ratchet handles avec FACOM innards. FACOM's ratcheting flare wrench now has S-K stamped on the side of it. I don't like it because we could get FACOM tools from S-K dealers for over 10 years, but now they're getting more and more reluctant to give us FACOM stuff, they'd rather sell S-K stuff. Which is why you get S-K catalogs instead of FACOM. If you specifically request (demand) a FACOM catalog, you get their _american_ catalog, which is abbreviated, along with a note to contact Griot's Garage. I've asked a French friend to get me a French market FACOM catalog, as they have all the good stuff that hasn't yet been absorbed into the S-K line. Ultimate Garage is a FACOM dealer as well as Griots, and I've been told (by richard?) they've got a catalog, dunno if it's FACOM's, but I'll order something and find out.
I was also wondering what the deal was with the S-K foundry? Presumably they still make some stuff stateside? No? I know there are others not mentioned, Cornwell has a foundry in Ohio, I think?
I'd kinda doubt that Williams uses the _exact_ same dies for Koalt and Snap-On. I compared the Kobalt combo wrench to one of my Snap-Ons, and they aren't the same. The Kobalt handle is pretty much rectangular in cross-section, and really does hurt your hand when you pull hard. The Snap-On is more rounded. As well, the Kobalt is visibly looser on the fastener. Maybe these are Snap-On rejects? Can't explain the handle differences, though. The breaker bars seem to share the same grip, though, it just seems the kobalt doesn't have those nifty machined indentations at the base.
I know Stanley owns Mac and Blackhawk (didn't know about Husky), but the Blackhawk stuff doesn't seem similar to the Mac stuff. These look awfully different to be from the same dies, shape wise. So the price difference is different steel in the better tools? Surely they can't be charging Mac prices for better plated Blackhawk stuff?
I received the following info from Dan Peronto a Tool Designer for Snap-on Tools at the Kenosha Mfg Plant:
From: "Peronto, Daniel J." To: "John T. Blair" Subject: Hand tools Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:44:50 -0500
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Well a nickle really, considering that I work for Snap-on and we over charge for everything :)
I was reading on your site about 'who makes what tools'
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One part expliansthat the various manufactures use 'the exact same forgings' for allthe various brands they sell. This is NOT true for Snap-on tools. Ourretail brand Kobalt sold through Lowe's stores, shares very little ifany traits with our traditional Snap-on line. They are made in thesame plants, but most of the manufacturing tooling is different. Theyare made by the same UNION skilled machinists useing the same triedand true processes. The designs for these tools are completlydifferent. They use different material and are heat treateddifferently.
I hope this clears things up slightly Dan Peronto Tool Designer Snap-on Tools Kenosha Mfg Plant
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