what's a good classic for a novice to restore?

You are correct. Take Series Landrovers. A wreck will cost you about £250, but will cost £2500 to restore. A runner will cost you £1000, but will cost you £1500 to restore. A good condition restored example goes for about £3000ish. More if you've got extras fitted, but generally speaking you won't make any money on it.

The trick is to get a bargain in the first place, and do as much work as possible yourself. Generally speaking only rare cars will make a profit after restoration.

Alex

Something with plenty of replacements still available that's basic from a mechanical point of view. A Mk1 or Mk2 Ford Escort would fit the bill nicely.

Or, if you don't mind a small car, a Mini but even then I would suggest a novice steer clear of the early external door models (I know of time served panel beaters who even after all these years don't like repairing those 'A' panels). It has been said in the past that if you can't repair a Mini bodywork you can't repair anything !...

In article , The Blue Max writes

I would recommend that a novice tackle a dead simple car that's worth nothing when done. That way, when you screw it up, you haven't lost much. I've never yet seen a "novice" restoration that was half way decent (and yes, that does include my own first attempts).

LOL Opps - missed out the word 'hinge' !

I would not dismiss a P4 based on the other set of posts as each car has its own specific challenges. I have a P4 and have undertaken a restoration project albeit with the car being resprayed and some new sub-panels welded by a professional. I had no previous experience either. The P4 is very well supported by it's Drivers Guild, fellow Guild members and parts suppliers and P4 breakers. I had support from fellow P4 Guild members in the area I live in too.

The P4 is not an expensive car either in terms of buying in good condition or buying parts during a restoration. What you will have is a car that feels different to modern cars (thankfully) whilst being able to keep up with modern traffic conditions. P4s have high levels of comfort and an attractive traditional wood and leather interior.

If you need any further information please refer to

"rovereab" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Somehow, you just know that a car club that refers to itself as a "guild" is not exactly going to be the most fun lovin' bunch of reprobates about, don'cha?

The Blue Max ( snipped-for-privacy@Jasta1.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

One you really, really want.

Slow down a bit, better to get something that has a simple mechanicals, electrics and has a structure that is fairy easy to repair and a goods parts backup and be fun to own and drive, a few cars fill some those requirements but not many. One of the reasons Triumphs, MGs and Land-Rovers are so popular is that they fill all requirments of the novice, while Jags and Loti (except for the Seven) require a high degree of expertise (and in the case the Jag you will a willing assistant and fairly heavy duty lifting equipment) hence are definitely not for beginners. Refitting the rear axle on a an MG is an easy one man job doing then same E type or XJ really requires 3 bodies because of the weight of the IRS assembly. Cars like the Ford Escort, Hillman Hunter & Avenger, Morris Marina Morris Minor, Vauxhall Viva have simple electrics and mechanicals but have unitray structures that can be pretty difficult to repair once rot has really set in and there is a limit to the number of repair section that can be spliced in and still retain structural integrity. A good indicator on cars with MacPherson struts like the Fords and 67 on Hillmans is if the vertical seam between the inner front wing and the bulkhead shows signs of rot walk away.

I restored a Reliant Scimitar Se5a at 15...took me 3 years. There's enough metalwork on the chassis to justify a welding course and enough fiberglass to learn some good skills. Mine had been in an accident so I had to replace the chassis, weld the "new" one and glass on a new front end.

At the end, you get a fairly good car with adequate performance.

Just wish I hadn't written it off months after it was completed :(

Cheers, Mark

As you surmise later in the message, there's a damned good reason why a restored XJ6 is going to have a higher value than a restored GT6 - the restoration is going to be difficult, while the parts are (by comparison) hugely expensive - there's a lot more parts too! Having messed around with MGBs, Midgets, Heralds and Spitfires as projects of my own, the Spitfire would be my ideal choice as a first project, though I made the mistake myself of going for a Midget as my first. While parts avaialbility is excellent for any of the above, the Spitfire is blessed with a seperate chassis which is rarely rusted badly. This gives an instant advantage over the MG options as both of those are monocoque designs, far easier to get a misaligned shell once the sills are off (though stupidity will give the same result on a Spitfire). While the Herald is a straightforward option, aligning the body sections can be difficult for the inexperienced. Basically, if you're hoping to break even on ANY project, you're doing it for the wrong reason. Find a model you like, join the appropriate club, then buy the car. Learn from the other club members - it's far easier to learn when you've got access to people who've made their own mistakes so you don't have to....... Cheers, Bill.

... like a spitfire or herald :)

I've noted the prices of Spitfire's in mags for the last 6 years and a good condition 2 has not shifted from max. £2000. It's all about a hobby and enjoyment these days, not what it's worth.

Chris

"Bill Davies" wrote

Indeed, but the tightwad in me figures, if Car A worth £X in restored condition is as about as difficult to do as Car B, which will be worth £3X, the latter is the one to do, all other things being equal.

Of course, everyone else will have noticed this too, with the obvious effect on value.

Like most of us, there's a list of cars I'd like to find examples of, in apparently dire condition, but salvageable and at giveaway prices.

It would include:

TR4 Spitfire Scimitar GTC (yes I know I slag them off here, but they're a nice *idea* if they ever bloody worked...as a substitute I'd like that "SE9" bodyshell lying around at Graham Walker) Jensen Interceptor Jag XK140 / 150 FHC (a DHC, even if it's a shed, is always going to be ruinously expensive) Maserati Quattroporte Mk 1 Humber Super Snipe, the Tickford DHC Alfa Romeo GTV6

...but I suspect only the first two would be novice projects.

Depends on how 'classic' you want it to be.

For a gentle introduction, something like a VW Golf MkI would fit the bill as all the bits are readily available, parts are cheap, and they're a simple design.

If you want a challenge, set up a (13/60) herald bonnet assembly - those hinges were the invention of the devil.... :~)

Oh, and don't treat a Spitfire body as a non 'stressed' unit, the rear toe board area and sills are just as stressed as on a car that doesn't have a chassis.

As with anything a car is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, many people will not buy a (non professionally) restored car, preferring to buy one that needs work (sometimes a lot of work) and then getting the work do, many people have paid good money for restored crap in the past.

Restore a car because you want the car, not because of (possible) financial gain.

Just scrapped a Mk 1, no one wanted it, and there was not a lot wrong with it....

Shame. I could have done with some bits for mine.

Personally, I wouldn't go with a Mini as a first restore unless you get a really rust free example, or a "reshell" in a brand new Heritage bodyshell. These cars are all welded together and far too fiddly for a beginner... IMHO... and I've got one of the blasted things :o)

-- Howard Rose '66 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe '62 Austin Mini Deluxe '64 Austin Mini Super Deluxe