Detroit auto workers

The simple answer is that they unionized years ago and as a result were able to get good pay packages over the years BEFORE trade barriers were mostly torn down and imports became the norm. Teachers generally did not unionize in any meaningful fashion.

But it's not really fair to say they are subsidized by the companies or buyers, it's a term usually only meaningful in regards to the gvt shoveling your tax dollars to someone else.

The fact that you even ask these questions show that you don't know much about the economy or unionism in America. Do CEO's deserve the millions they make? I have a feeling you will be making $11/hour for a long time.

I chose to be an auto worker. Teachers and nurses chose to be teachers and nurses. If my choice turned out to be better financially, is that my fault? BTW, my "good retirement package" is $1900.00 per month.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

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The same reason ballplayers get millions. They "earn" more money for their employer than teachers, who are only one of the costs to their employer

mike

If you read the article, the autoworkers pay is based on $28.00 an hour (which translates to $58240.00 a year) and overtime boosts the income to $80,000.00. Why do they deserve such a good package? The company chose to pay em that amount.

They are not subsidized, they earned their pay.

Rather, their union negotiated that amount. The amount a teacher, software engineer and auto worker makes are based on the laws of supply and demand and the union's negotiating skills. The pay doesn't necessarily reflect how hard a job is or the skills needed to do that job.

I don't see why an auto worker should earn a higher salary than a nanny or sanitation worker or resident physician.

I don't see what is so special about these blue-collar workers that they should get paid more than other blue-collar workers.

jeff

You are comparing apple to oranges. A teachers job and a software engineer's is not based on supply or demand, the factory that produces the software and the factory that produces a car, their production is based on supply and demand. It is all about what the employee/union asks for and what the employer is willing to pay. The market determines prices and wages.

No one could afford a nanny if they earned the amount of an auto worker.

Blue-collar jobs cover so many types of work, and the type of work in their market determines wages.

You causin' trouble over here, too? ;)

Because, in order to keep people working after introducing the assembly line, Henry Ford starting paying his workers $5 a day to work for Ford. What had happened was he took people skilled at assembling either an entire assembly, or even a team responsible for building an entire car, and had them doing only one or two operatrions on whatever they were working on. So, a person that was once skilled at building an entire magneto or generator was no spending his day installing the stator..installing the stator...installing the stator...instal...

bored Bored BORED BORED!!!! People weren't coming to work, and a lot of the best people were just walking out on Friday with their pay in their hand and never coming back. Ford was losing the skilled workers because they were bored out of their skulls. So, he instituted the $5 per day wage. This made it so people WANTED to work for Ford doing one job 1500 times a day.

In the late 20's and early 30's the Unions sunk their teeth into the auto manufacturers and never let go.

That's why.

The market is supply and demand. A software engineer's wages are definitely based on supply and demand. A teacher's wages are less so, in part because of unions. Even if there is a sudden severe shortage of teachers, wages are unlikely to go up suddenly in government jobs. If teacher's wages go up a lot, then police, firefighters and sanitation workers will want a big raise, too.

Auto worker's wages in Detroit weren't really based on supply and demand, IMHO. There are lots of people without post-secondary education who wanted to make $20 or more an hour.

Jeff

The market is supply and demand. A software engineer's wages are definitely based on supply and demand. A teacher's wages are less so, in part because of unions. Even if there is a sudden severe shortage of teachers, wages are unlikely to go up suddenly in government jobs. If teacher's wages go up a lot, then police, firefighters and sanitation workers will want a big raise, too.

Auto worker's wages in Detroit weren't really based on supply and demand, IMHO. There are lots of people without post-secondary education who wanted to make $20 or more an hour.

Jeff

School teachers are sacred cows in Michigan at the moment, all have good wage and benefits. The school teachers are in a different governental entity that police and firefighters. Police and Firefighters have decent wage and pay packages, but the given the current economic conditions in Michigan, police and firefighters may be facing layoffs.

The Unions are antiques and should be sent off to museums. There are enough law, regulations, and administrative rules in plae to protect workers and employers. Part of Ford's problem is they gave in too much to union demands and the resulting negotiations have left Ford with huge legacy costs. Not an overnight thing, but one that took place over the past 30-40 years worth of collective bargaining.

If unions were the problem, why is it that Toyotas and Honda cost more than similarly size and equipped GM and Ford vehicles, when the import plants are not union? Employees in import plants do not make as much per hour, have fewer or less desirable benefits, no pension plan and they install more of the cheaper imported parts, yet the cars and trucks cost more than domestics. How can that be, if unions are the problem? ;)

mike

Simple law of economics, demand for the product goes up, prices go up. The Detroit Big 3 have car lots full of new cars, but fail to lower prices, result, low cash flow. Two years ago this summer, the Detroit Big 3 offered employee pricing on their vehicles and they flew off of the lot.

We know all manufacturers have rebates and incentive on most everything the sell, but my reference was to the difference in the MSRP between the domestic, union made and non union made, foreign cars. Only a fool would pay MSRP, yet alone over MSRP that some dealers seem to expect.

You failed to answer the question why is it that Toyotas and Honda cost more than similarly size and equipped GM and Ford vehicles, when the import plants are not union? Can you answer that question for us? What make you think unions are the problem?

mike

Installs more of the imported parts? The percentage of US parts in US-made foreign brand cars is similar to the US-brand cars. The Toyota Sienna is about 80% domestic parts. Show us that the import-brand cars made in the US have a substantially lower percentage of American-made parts. And Toyota buys something like $28 billion worth of American goods and services every year.

It is estimated that pensions and health care is so expensive that it costs Ford and GM over $1000 a car just to pay for pensions and health care. The problem is not the value of the car to the consumer, but, rather, the cost of a car to Ford and GM, which is quite high, compared to what they sell it to the consumers for.

Jeff

You are free to believe whatever Toyota propaganda you chose.

mike

Regardless how much it costs to build a car, the car makers will charge as much as the market will bear, as commented on. If the price is too high, car makers will have incentives, like the incentives on the Toyota Tundra.

The problem is that the Michigan-3 are getting less for the cars than it costs them to make them, when you add on the costs of pensions and health care.

The unions are a reason why it costs Ford and GM more to build a car than Toyota or Honda.

The reason why Toyotae and Hondae cost more than similar Fords and GMs is that buyers feel that they are worth the extra money.

Jeff

ROTFL

First, you tell us that the VIN represents the US content. You were disproven wrong.

Now, you are saying that the Toyota vehicles built in the US don't have much US content. Without any evidence. You're so full of shit that it's funny. Thanks for the laughs.

The fact is that the reason why people pay more for a Toyota is that they think that a Toyota is worth more than a Ford or GM. Perhaps you could go to the store and a clue or something.

Jeff