Dumass car makers!!

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Freakin' activists are at it again...
http://www.safetyforum.com/powerwindows /
The power window doing Darwin's dirty work could be fixed easily and WITHOUT
auto-reverse*.
All they have to do is adapt the Pull-up-to-raise type switches like MAzda and Mitsubishi's ... in fact Ford seems to have had them on a few past models.
WHY does Ford keep letting this stuff go on until they have to spend big money?
I can hear it now...
"Uh... if we put them in now, we might set ourselves up for litigation on previous models citing defacto admission of dangerous features previously installed."
That being the lawyers, of course; they'd rather let it ride and get the BIG litigation bucks later.
* imagine the window probs on older cars if they had ANY kind of auto- reverse!
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How are you going to fix the problem of all the young children that have there hands pinched by the closing doors? That's been going on long before the advent of motorized windows.

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Thomas Moats opined in

And not just kids....
But that's where intuitive learning and Darwin rules come in.
Point being the automakers need to be picking their battles... it's stupid to not be proactive on the switches.
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So a door you need to learn to teach your children to keep hands out, but a power window is the manufactures fault? Kind of faulty reasoning. Or am I missing your point?

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Thomas Moats opined in

Well, sorta... the complaint is that 3-5 year olds were leaning out windows and putting knees on the window switches and strangling themselves..
Dont ask me why the keys were left on
The switch being easy to modify as per the Mitsu (pull up) type.. it's stupid to keep the rocker type.
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That is what I thought. Think of this. Would you leave a child in the car with the engine off and the windows rolled up on a hot summers day? Of course you would not, why? Well read the papers on any given summers day and you will see just that scenario resulting in a dead or near dead child. Now who's fault is that? the parents or the manufactures because there is not a placard in the car telling you not to do that? Point is, no child should be left unattended in a vehicle with or with out the keys in the ignition. If power windows were not the issue then being locked in would be. If being locked in were not the issue then it would be the hot metal of the safety buckles burning little hands. Children do not belong in a vehicle by them selves no matter what the situation period.

I'll bet that child was unsupervised. So you should be asking why was that child allowed to be in that situation?

I feel it stupid to have to have warning placards, special switches, and anything like that to avoid a injury because of someone's stupidity. It aint just happening in cars, look at hair dryers for example.
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You're dreaming if you think a 93 Geo will still be around and running10-20 years from now. And, I'm not sure there are many cars left that still offer manual windows today, let alone in the future. REALLY limits your choices!!
Steve
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a '93

and
that
more
running10-20 years from now. And, I'm

let alone in the future.

It has not needed a single bit of non-maintenance work done so far, and the frame and body are in good condition. When I get it I plan on changing the timing belt, which hasn't been changed yet, and then just driving it. It's been a very reliable car, and I don't see any reason why anything catastrophic should fail prematurely. Do Geos of that year with the 1.6l engine have a reputation for being unreliable? I don't see any reason why it shouldn't go too 200,000-250,000 miles or more before needing a rebuild. Whenever the engine goes if the rest of the car is in good condition I may as well rebuild it or buy a remanufactured engine.
No sense wasting my money on a new car when this one is doing just fine. I don't plan on ever getting a new car, as it's just a colossal waste of money. I could have more cars that I like better for less, if I buy used. If I am ever rich (don't want to deal with car payments) and there is a particular model of new car that I just can't live without I will go to the dealer and look over the options list and talk with the salesperson. If they can't or won't make the car with the options I want, I will walk away and get a car that I like.
Cory
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"Thomas Moats" wrote

"Safety begins with me!" (Where did that old slogan originate? Can't remember, but I use to see it alot)
Sure, you're responsible for you're own safety. But it's nice when our products don't kill us when we make a mistake.
I like to think of it as products being designed for the way we use them, rather than us conforming to the product.
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And just how do you call not letting children play in cars as "conforming to the product"? It's nice when our products don't kill us when a mistake is made? Then DO NOTHING! There is inherent risk in every thing you do! You just sit back and let big brother take care of you. Aberrantly you are not able to do so for your self.

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Yup it is a window switch. It the wrong hands will kill all the little children of the world unless it is made safer!

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wrote:

But it's not "a mistake"--it's a series of them, in this case. And they're not "split-second" descisions, either. The parents made at least two really stupid choices 1) Leave the keys in the ignition in the "On" or "Acc" position, and 2) leave the child in the car, unsupervised, and evidently unrestrained.
Beyond the danger of the kid getting caught in the window, that parent has made it really easy for someone to hop in the car, and take off, with their kid still inside (or for that matter, to just grab the kid and run)
This isnt meant to be hyperbole, but at what point have the auto makers made a reasonable effort to engineer their products for safety, and at what point is it the responsibility of the driver to have two functioning brain cells they can rub together? If we designed passenger cars like NASCAR stock cars, and required everyone riding in the car to wear full-face helmets with the HANS device, five-point safety harnesses, and fire-resistant clothing, there would probably be very few traffic fatalities (excluding pedestrians and bicyclists who get hit by cars). The reason we don't is that it would be prohibitively expensive, and the brutal reality is that we make those kinds of safety/cost tradeoffs all the time

But the operator of any product has to take a reasonable amount of care. If you're using a power saw, it's your responsibility to make sure your fingers aren't in the way.
take care, Scott Modless Wonder #8
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Absolutely fantastic logical and responsible response! Thank you.

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Bob, rare? Hell it's all but dead.

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at 20 Aug 2003, J Alex [ snipped-for-privacy@nospamx.info] wrote in wrote

In Europe a few years back I believe it became mandatory to have pressure sensors on power windows just because of the kid accidents. So the technology should be readily available. I believe the method used is the same as the 'pressure sensitive' method used on garage door openers. But I believe they stop rather than move back. I'd have to call my dad and have him check his new car to see what it does...
--
_ 1995 Mustang V6 Coupe (Bright Blue)
|_| Member Modern Mustangs of North America (MMNA)
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The sad part is not just the people injured, but the stupid parents who are too busy to keep an eye on their children when they're in the car. My children are in their 30's now and neither of them was ever hurt by a closing door or an electric window while they were living with me. Of course, I didn't have a cell phone, pager, PDA, or notebook to distract me when I was getting the kids ready for a trip. Of course, that's just my opinion- I may be wrong (to quote Dennis Miller). Tom F.
wrote

but
I
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need
Well, crank-starts weren't defective, but I'm glad we have electronic ignition.... It doesn't have to be defective to be designed better.

I agree that parents should be more watchful. But I also think that if a potentially dangerous situation can be designed away at little or no cost, it should be.
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It the new American way to riches, screw up then blame someone else for you mistake and sue. ;)
mike hunt
JS wrote:

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wrote

There is nothing wrong with the switch, it's design is just fine.

It's funny. People complain about too much government interference. Yet by this statement, that is exactly what you want.
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cost,
this
Who's talking about government interference? I thought we were talking about Ford making their vehicle safer.
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