Camper tie-downs

I used to manufacture campers and faced almost every problem one has to contend with in these situations. I manufactured a 9.5' camper for myself for our '97 F250 kingcab with the short bed, believe it or not. That was the first year of the "new" style and the F250 had the same styling as the F150 but with a 7600 GVW setup. I put air shocks on it and it handled the camper, with a queen bed cabover turned length-wise beautifully. Here's how we always handled the tie down situation. Your biggest problem is holding the front of the camper down onto the bed. You cannot use the bed for this purpose since it's basically heavy tinfoil. The simple way is to fabricate (or have someone else do it for you) a 2-inch square tube with

3/16-inch wall thickness. This tube should be long enough to reach from one side of your truck to the other and hang below the frame but about 4-6 inches short of the outside edge of both the right and left sides of your bed. I'm not sure about what you'll run into on the '99 model but next you need to hang this tube from vertical hangers at least 1/2" X 2" and reaching far enough up each side of the frame to guarantee a solid mount. Make sure the hangers are welded adequately to the cross tube but NOT to the frame. Since the pull is all vertical the weld isn't required to sustain much stress. This is where it gets a little tricky. When you locate the tube fore and aft on the truck frame make sure it is at least as far forward as the split between the cab and bed. A couple inches further forward assures you of a good angle when securing the camper. You need to drill at least two mounting holes in the vertical hangers 1/2" clearance for grade 8 bolts. Make SURE you don't drill the frame in a place that will put holes in brake lines, wiring, etc. Most times these can be moved enough to get holed drilled and the hangers bolted. Again, use grade 8, 1/2-inch bolts. When you have the tube mounted you will need to get some 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" square tubing, also 3/16" wall thickness. This will be a removable mount that slides in and out of the permanent 2-inch tube when you take the camper off. This tube needs to be long enough to reach from one side of the truck to the other with about 1 inch sticking out each side. I always drilled a hole inboard of the frame on the driver's side of the truck in order to put a 1/4" bolt to keep the tube from sliding from one side to the other. Drilling and tapping a hole on the forward-facing vertical side of the tube is also an adequate way of securing the mounting tube. If you do this make sure the set bolt faces forward and has a lock nut. However, I'm not sure this is even necessary since nothing ever seems to move once the camper is mounted and the tie-downs secured. If you cut the sliding tube at a 45-degree angle on each side with the longer side facing up all you have to do is drill a 3/4-inch hole on the top side near the outer edge into which the camper tiedowns are hooked. Note: The best tiedowns I ever sold were chrome units with a very heavy spring set up inside a sliding mechanism. These could be tighhtened down really good but still had enough "give" in unusual situations to keep from tearing everything apart. Incidentally, I'm retired now and sold my manufacturing operation to a company in Oregon but, if you are interested I might still have a complete set of those tiedowns for the front and back somewhere in my garage. They're not as cheap as simple turnbuckles and chain with "S" hooks but they work better and certainly lhave a classier look. On the rear of the camper all you're really interested in is keeping the back down and basically centered on your truck. I always used tiedowns that went to each end of the rear bumper. This works well enough and is only there to keep the camper from leaving the bed of the truck when you hit speed bumps at 40 mph. Another slick trick, especially for loading, is to cut a couple of 4 x 4s at an angle and nail them to some plywood or 1-inch wood that is at least a foot or so long. However, the width is critical. Measure the overall width of the bottom floor of your camper where it will sit at the rear of your bed and add 1/2-inch. For example, if the camper floor is exactly 48 inches wide use 48-1/2 inches. Then measure the overall width of the rear of your truck bed just inside the tailgate opening. Subtract the 48-1/2 inch camper floor width from this dimension and divide by two. This is how wide you need the 1-inch mounting boards. Screw or nail, from the bottom, the 4 x 4s cut at an angle with the longer side of the angle on the bottom where it meets the 1-inch board. Make sure the bottom of the angle is flush with the edge of the board. You simply drop these into the bed making sure they are slid outboard as far as possible. Done right these should give you a 48-1/2 gap in the middle of your bed into which you can lower your camper. Suggestion: make a set for the front of your truck as well. Most campers come with bumpers at the lower front portion that meets the bed of your truck but you can still have the camper on crooked without something for alignment. I like this set up because you can simply remove the alignment blocks once the camper is off. Nothing to mess up your cargo space. Let me know if you're interested in those tiedowns. If not I might as well put them on eBay. Let me know if you have more questions. Good luck!

Thanks for the great information, Ernie. I saw pictures of the belly tube type tie downs but when I look under the truck it seems like the vertical hangers would have to extend quite far down for the cross tube to clear everything. What you have is likely overkill for what I am looking for. I really like the idea of the spacers, though and I will make some of those up. I also have access to a full machine/fabrication shop at work so I could make up anything I needed in the way of tie-downs, if I knew what I needed.

I have heard about split type tie-downs that attach to the frame but it seems like they would have a tendency to twist the frame if enough force was applied. An advantage I can see for the split type would be that they would not compromise ground clearance like the underbell type seem like they would do.

I am only interested in tying down a very small camperette, total weight should be less than 600lbs fully loaded. I want to modify the camperette to make it shorter to fit the shortbox. I also want to cut the top and make it a sort of pop up so that it will be very low, hopefully about the same height as the cab.

Any comments would be welcome.

Stephen

Ernie Sparks wrote:

You're in for a lot of work if you intend to convert a standard "stick 'n metal" unit into a pop top. However, anything is possible. Since you have access to fabrication equipment, etc., here's what I used on a '73 ford pickup for tiedowns. I made an "L" shaped brackets that went up the side of the frame with the lower horizontal part about 4-inches long facing inward toward the centerline of the truck. I drilled a hole through the part that extended inward just beyond the frame. I then took a 2 x 2 x 1/2-inch piece of metal, drilled and tapped a hole toward one end so I could put a bolt upward through the drilled hole in the "L" bracked and screwed into the flat piece of metal. This allowed me to clamp the lower frame between the two pieces of metal. I then welded a piece of 2 x 2 x 3/16" wall tubing about 8 inches long directly to the vertical part of the "L" bracket in a position that would allow insertion of another 1-1/2-inch square tube into the 2-inch tube and about an inch below the lower part of the bed and naturally extending outboard at least enough to clear the bed with tiedowns. Welded a

45-degree bracket to the 2-inch tube and the vertical part of the "L" bracket to take any stress with the tiedown. One other thing I did was weld another metal "tab" about 4 inches long to the edge of the vertical part of the "L" bracket to prevent twisting of the mount once upward pressure was applied with the turnbuckle. Now that I've gone through this explaination I also remember that I later added a sort of "hook" to the upper part of the "L" bracket that reached over the top of the frame as well. This produced a "U" shaped bracket rather than an "L" shape and worked much better. I believe that alone would have prevented twist had I done it first. Good luck.

I think you are right about modifying the Camperette. I have been tossing the question of building or modifying for a while. I can get a camperette for cheap so if nothing else I may grab one just for the equipment in it.

A buddy put a pretty nice full size unit together so I will get some help from him. I have been trying to find a local source for the aluminum siding for the last while. There is also a local place that makes pop-up campers and I have been doing a little industrial espionage to get an idea of how they set up the raising roof. I have been drawing plans and ideas for a while now and I think I have some idea how the whole thing should come together. CADD is part of my job so playing with ideas is pretty easy.

I think I follow you on the tie-down bracket but were you saying that they were clamped but not actually bolted to the frame in any way?

Ernie Sparks wrote:

Correct, just clamped. Worked great but make sure you have lock washers on the bolts. BTW if I were to built another camper for myself I would use fiberglass siding instead of aluminum. Makes a much cleaner unit and you can actually glass over the corners and edges then apply gelcoat, sand, etc. for a classy look We had a very large vacuum table and a pump that pulled 1-cubic foot per minute! You could actually vacuum bag to concrete with that monster. Some of those "pop tops" were raised with cables, pulleys, etc. You will need turnbuckles on three of your four corner cables to get proper adjustment. I think I'd consider using small diameter (maybe 1-inch) air cylinders on each corner. Then you could simply have a locking pawl set up on each corner to keep the top up and the air cylinders would allow a "lagging" corner to catch up with the others once full extension was reached. Playing with this design with a CADD background would be fun in that you could try different cabinet arrangements. Good luck!

Ernie,

I went out to talk to a small RV company but they don't want to reveal any trade secrets and I couldn't see how things were put together. I just can't see into the walls so I also can't tell how thick they are or how the framing in the wals is put together.

I am trying to find out how the walls of campers are constructed. I am making a very small camper and I want it to be very light. I want to sandwich foam insulation between thin (1/8th?) skins with aluminum RV siding on the outside.

My thought was to build the panels and then put them together to make the unit. I have a full wood shop at my work so I can make just about anything. I spent a few years in a cabinet shop in my youth so the interior is not worrying me much. I really would like an xray of the walls though. I thought that since you have been involved in the trade, you could shed some light on this for me.

You can reply here or to my personal email since the folks on here may not be interested in the topic. Any thoughts you or anyone else has have will be gratefully accepted.

Thanks,

Stephen

snishio(AT)ise(dot)bc(dot)ca

Ernie Sparks wrote:

I wondered about this too and stumbled on a website that sells plans for building RVs.

All of these RVs are pretty old styling-wise, but the info for building them seems sound. If you check out the builder photos section, you can seem some camper walls under construction.

At one time I thought I might build my own camper, but my wife has made it pretty clear she wants more room in an RV than would ever be available.

Matt

99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

This was actually about all the info I needed. I may not build a camper the way the maunfacturers do it but I am sure it will work the way I want it to.

Thanks Matt,

Stephen

Here's the "skinny" on how the corners are usually put together on slide in campers. Many companies do NOT have engineers on their staff and do not have to go through destruction tests, etc., in order to put their product on the market. However, we always did things from an engineering standpoint and never ran into any problems with sidewall sag, front cross member "droop", etc. One problem you must address before attempting to tie down your camper from the corners is to consider how strong the front bulkhead is. This is the flat wall that sits just behind the cab of the truck. You will note that these usually have a large hole in them for a window just behind the rear window of the truck cab. This provides a perfect opportunity for failure since many manufacturers don't realize just how much stress is put on this bulkhead. When I was in the repair business you can't believe the number of "name brand" campers we repaired that had this front bulkhead simply drop on both sides. I don't have enough space and time to describe the cause here but suffice to say you need to make sure the sidewalls are adequately supported where they rest on the "wing" of the camper. Let me describe the "wing". After you build the floor you secure the box sides to the sides of the floor which need to reach up high enough to clear the sides of your truck bed. Onto these bulkheads (normally just plywood), you mount the horizontal "wings" which stick out over each side of your truck bed. These wings need a lot of support. You would normally insert the front bulkhead on top of the floor, between the box sides and over the wings. You then fasten the wings with glue and screws. This must be a good, secure connection. You then mount the far rear bulkhead if you are building an 8-foot unit. If you're building a longer rig then a lot of things need to be taken into consideration....too much to discuss here. Once you have the front and rear bulkheads mounted you then set the sidewall in place. These must also be glued and screwed into position. Now, here's where the mounting situation gets critical. In the vertical sections at each corner you need to use 1 x 5s instead of 1 x 2s in both the front bulkhead and the sidewall. Same with the rear bulkhead. This gives you a corner with at least 4 inches of solid wood on each side of a mounting corner angle. After the sidewalls are mounted you need to glue and screw about a 6 x 6 square piece of solid 1-inch wood down flat in each corner. This may seem a bit overkill but here's what we did on the outside before putting on the exterior aluminum sheet metal. We took an 18-in long by 8-in wide piece of 22 gauge galvanized sheet metal, bent it in a sheet metal break to 90 degrees on the 18-inch length. This gives you about 4 inches on each leg of the angle. Cut up from the bottom about 4 inches right where the break takes place and bend both sides inward 90 degrees, with one side overlapping the other. This gives you a tremendous corner support which will do many good things for you. Slide this into place on the outside of the camper corner(s) after everything else is in place but before the exterior metal is applied. Get yourself a piece of 1/8-inch metal about 3-inches square or a very, very large 1/2-inch washer. If you use the 1/8-inch square plate drill a 1/2-inch clearance hole in the middle. Lay the metal plate (or the very, very large washer) on the inside of the corner. Using the hole in the washer as a guide drill a 1/2-inch clearance hole all the way down through the 6 x 6 wood, your wing material and the galvanized metal corner support. This is where you install the eyebold (welded type) for your camper tiedown. Note: You can get by with a 3/8-inch eyebolt but be sure you use the welded type. Put a washer on the eye bolt first, shove it up through the hole and secure with a lock washer and nut. We used the nylon insert nuts so they wouldn't loosen. Cut off any excess bolt threads. I know this seems like a lot of work but you will be real glad when you get into some really rough country and the corners don't pull out of your camper. You won't believe what can happen. One other thing real quick. When you build the front bulkhead (the one behind the window of the cab) make the window as small as you feel you can get by with. Even then you want to build the bulkhead with an angled wooden brace running from the lower portion of each corner of the window upward at an angle to the outside of the bulkhead, usually about as high as you can. This should be at least a 1 x 3 and at about a 45-degree angle. This is probably the most important engineering aspect overlooked by major camper manufacturers. Remember, this point supports nearly all of the cabover weight of your camper. Wish I could stand beside you while you go through this because this is all interesting stuff. Let me know if you need more info. BTW, if you can, build a "basement" camper with all of your tanks on the floor. Great concept and one that we pioneered in the '80s. Now it seems like everyone is doing it. Good thinking on the rigid EPS foam. That's how we built our units using a vacuum process. Adds to the overall strength. Good luck

"Stephen" snipped-for-privacy@coldmail.com wrote in message news:mxy6e.17793$yV3.2867@clgrps12...

manufacturing

Thanks, that was fantastic info.

I am not planning to have any kind of cab-over but I do want it to be bullet proof for off-road use. My purpose is to have a really small unit that will not inhibit me from 4 wheeling into some of the lakes I like to go to. I can get a used little camperette for dirt cheap but even they stick up two feet above the cab of the truck.

The unit I am building is going to be about 6'6" x 6'6" looking down from above. The camper will be similar to the Aliner box camper but it will not open the same way.

I had a look at the website that Matt listed in his post. That site seemed to be suggesting that the panels were built with 1" framing, 3/8 ply on the outside and 1/8th skin on the inside. Remember that my walls are not going to be full height and there is no cab-over.

We have a finger brake at work so I can do the sheet metal corner brackets and plates no problem. We also have a lot of talented welders that can burn anything I want in steel, stainless or aluminum.

I have made the change to incorporate the heavier uprights at the corners. I was wondering why the forward and rear bulkheads go inside the box and on top of the wings instead of outside the box and wings. From an engineering standpoint it seems like screwing into the end of the wings would lend more support than having the wings hanging off the bottom of the outrigger part of the bulkheads. It would be using the shear strength of the screws (plus glue of course) which would be stronger than strength of the threads. That is how I had planned to attach the bulkheads. Is there some reason not to do this?

It looks like the RV aluminum siding is going to be the most expensive part of whole project. It seems like it is going to be about $3/sqft but I haven't actually seen any in person so I don't even know how it comes, size-wise. I am even tossing the idea of fiberglassing the unit instead. I spent 4 years in a yacht building company so I am pretty familiar with the fiberglassing process even though I was the electrical/electronics guy there.

Oh yeah, I have another question: Aside from the corners and windows etc., how is the exterior aluminum fastened to the outside of the unit? Is it just adhesive that holds it there?

You are a great resource for me...!

Stephen

Actually I can see this would be fine now that I think about it. Initially I thought it would be stronger to screw through the bulkheads into the ends of the wings. Considering that the wings will be on top of the box sides on the inside and screwed to the bottom of the upper walls on the outside, I think that should be plenty strong enough.

You also answered another question I had about the construction of the walls. If I understand you properly, the upper walls and bulkheads are composed of 1/8 ply, framing and EPS, 1/8 ply, and finally the exterior aluminum. I am not familiar with the vinyl coated mahogany ply. Is that something that should be available at the lumber yard? We have a specialty woods store nearby so I could go there if I needed to.

Thanks again, Ernie.

Stephen Nishio

The 1/8-inch ply I'm referring to is not always available to the "general public." This is mahogany ply that has a vinyl surface that looks like different types of wood but without any grooves....just one solid panel from one side to the other. You get maximum use of each panel since you don't have to worry about lining up grooves, etc.. Vinyl also takes a lot more abuse with spills, etc., than real wood. All of us used to manufacture campers in the '60s and '70s with a very dark wood grain finish (Mediteranean oak, ugh) that made you think you were walking into a cave with a match. I think that was to hide shoddy workmanship. The last units we built were made with a vinyl finish that looked like white washed oak. I caught a lot of criticism at first from other manufacturers because it seemed to "washed out" the interior. However, now everyone is doing the very same thing since it makes them look spacious inside. My motto has always been....the husband decides he needs a camper and the wife decides which one. We sold factory direct, always on special order, always with a deposit. Hummm, if I were only 30 years younger. It was a great ride and very creative work. Let me know if I can help you further.