80 Pontiac T/A 301 CID

There's a guy at a local gin joint who claims that the 301 CID V-8 motor in Pontiacs (specifically T/A's) was never truly a Pontiac motor. He claims it was either an Olds or a Buick production motor
that Pontiac used.
Anyone care to comment on this?
Specifically, are there any numbers we can check on my buddy's 80 T/A to prove the motor was made by Pontiac?
I could see the guy claiming that my buddy's motor might not be a Pontiac, but ALL of Pontiac's 301's were not made by Pontiac? I and a lot of other folks in the place find that extremely hard to believe.
BTW, the guy is largely regarded as less than reliable, but I just wanted to find concrete proof that he's wrong so we can shut him up. If he's right, however, I'll be happy to spread the word that he is correct.
Many thanks for any info!
Rick
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

Your friend is totally and completely full of SH*T!!!
The 265/301 was made to reduce weight and production cost but use existing tooling. It was designed and made by Pontiac and was GM's most advanced engine at the time(released in 1977) It used a thin wall cast block and siamese port intake which made it look different from a traditional Pontiac engine.
Unfortunately it was made with hardly any performance in mind and bean countered to the point that they aren't very reliable.
Ask him if there are "big block" and "small block" Pontiacs. If he says yes you know he's clueless because all pontiac blocks are the same size from 265 - 455.
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Dennis Smith
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301 was a Pontiac 400 with a cut down deck and short throw crank but they use the 400 rods with short skirt high pin pistons to prevent the piston from hitting the heads. It was designed in late '76 to compete in Trans Am competition with the Ford 302 in the Mustang and the Chevy 302s in the Camaros. T/A rules at the time mandated that the engine be produced by the same manufacturer as the body. They are a tough engine when built up. As far as the Ponchos go the engine line up was kind of strange a few years. They used their own 250,350,400,455 up until '77, Then they had the Buick 231, Pontiac 301, Chevy 305, An Olds and a Pontiac 350, the 400 was still Pontiac and the 403 was an Olds engine. Then they added the Pontiac 365 in '80 But dropped the big blocks. His engine should have either a YN code if it doesn't have a turbo, YL if it does, (If it has a XN or another code it is not the original engine).
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Steve Williams
Near Cooperstown NY
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The Pontiac overhead cam inline-6 250 cu was dropped after the 1969 model year and replaced with a Chebbie 250 cu in 1970. The Chebbie was used in Firebirds until 1975.

It was a 265, based off the short deck 301 block.

Pontiac never had any big blocks. Just Pontiac blocks :-) Set a 326 block next to a 455 block and they're the same size.
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:11:02 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@REMOVETHISyahoo.com (Dennis Smith) wrote:

Thanks a lot for your help, Dennis!!
Rick
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The 403 Olds was a big block engine (not a Poncho engine but not a bad engine IF you knew how to mod it) The 250 in the 70 I had here was still the Pontiac OHC engine not the integral head Chevy. Guess it was a leftover one,still had the BOP pattern bellhousing. And yes the 365 was a typo sorry about that...
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Steve Williams


"Dennis Smith" < snipped-for-privacy@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
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400, 425, 455.
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Bruce
Westminster, Md
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His car does not have a turbo, so it should have the XN code. Can you tell me which digits in the VIN this would be? And if you say something like digits 5 and 6, is that starting from the left or right of the VIN? I would guess it's starting from the right, but I wanted to be sure.
Many thanks!!
Rick
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

The 5th letter in the VIN will note the engine. Y for 155HP 301 Pontiac and W for 140HP 301 Pontiac.
Engine codes for 140HP 301's are XT, XW, X3, X9, XN. Codes for 155HP 301's are, YN, and YR.
This code is located on the front of the engine on the passenger side just below the cylinder deck. Further down closer to the oil pan you will find the partial VIN which should match the VIN number on the dash.
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