The Tragedy of General Motors

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:


No need to apologize for your oversight in not delving into the full information on the link "you" provided chrisvillar. Those unfamiliar with how to properly read and assess financial results often make that mistake.

No chrisvillar, they are not reliable. Once again, you appear not to have read the comments that I already made in this regard. If I may quote but again chrisvillar, I directed you to read the closing remarks of the auditors, found on Page 32 of the Financial Report. This is a direct copy from the very financial statements that "you" provided (Didn't you read them being sending us the link?) for Hyundai Motors: "Accounting principles and auditing standards and their application in practice vary among countries. The accompanying financial statements are not intended to present the financial position, results of operations and cash flows in accordance with accounting principles and practices generally accepted in countries other than the Republic of Korea. In addition, the procedures and practices utilized in the Republic of Korea to audit such financial statements may differ from those generally accepted and applied in other countries. Accordingly, this report and the accompanying financial statements are for use by those knowledgeable about Korean accounting procedures and auditing standards and their application in practice."

What thing is that chrisvillar? The thing of trying to get someone to delve into Hyundai Motors' financial statements before proclaiming how well they are doing? Is telling the truth "the thing" that you say I started? Shame on me for wanting people to know the truth chrisvillar. ;-) *still shaking head in disbelief*
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Then let's cut through all your other BS and get to the point. If financials aren't reliable, why did you open this can of worms and use the financial statements of Hyundai Corp. to support a position on the failure of Hyundai Motors in the US?

I read 'em. But your talking out of both sides of your mouth so I just wanted to get all of this straight so I could nail you down. Turns out it's like nailing down jello. "Financials are unreliable" and then "Look at the financials of Hyundai Corp., they are insolvent"

So you have a point? All financial statements of multinational corporations have similar explanations of the GAAP standards that apply.

The thing that you started was pointing to the financial statements of Hyundai Corp. as if they somehow indicated that Hyundai Motor operations were innefficient and losing money. Just because a conglomerate is insolvent does not mean that it has no assets at all. So far I haven't seen any evidence that Hyundai Motors is anything but a success. You haven't presented any evidence other than to try to cast doubt on the financials of Hyundai Motors. Are they playing a shell game with the financials, maybe, maybe not. I think that I hear you now saying that you can't tell either. Well that is huge backpedalling from your initial position that Hyundai Motors was losing money on sales of automobiles.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com only opened his mouth long enough to switch feet when he wrote:

chrisvillar, in the financial world, we have an expression to describe people like you - thicker than whale shit! First of all, in response to your question: "Are korean financials...reliable or not?", I responded that they are not reliable. That goes for Hyundai Corp. and its many subsidiaries. It's a fact Chris. Why did you ask, if you didn't want to hear the answer?

But clearly didn't understand 'em!

chrisvillar, it's impossible for someone like yourself with absolutely no financial knowledge to nail down anyone with business acumen because you simply don't appear to have a clue about the subject matter. ;-)

No chrisvillar. It's all quite straightforward. You're just too thick to realize it. ;-) The point that you seem to be missing is that Hyundai Corp's actual results would be far worse than their already poor results as reported. Read my lips chrisvillar - Korean Financial Reporting falls well short of North American reporting Standards. The company's own notes to their financials told you that! And Hyundai Motors financials are totally controlled and manipulated by the parent, rendering them meaningless for analytical purposes. Is it sinking in yet chrisvillar?

I never once said that an insolvent conglomerate "has no assets at all". You're writing fiction now chrisvillar.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink! ;-)

If that's what you're hearing chrisvillar, you're clearly not listening to me. *LOL* Your comments are now verging on the absurd. No need to become hysterical chrisvillar. You're not alone. A lot of people lack the training to read financial statements. Just take a course chrisvillar, then it will all become clear. A lot of people lack common sense chrisvillar, but sadly, that's not something you can acquire. You either have it or you don't. Sorry, I can't help you there. There's no course for common sense. ;-)

You are clearly reading someone elses comments, probably your own to make such an inaccurate comment. But then, you've been making inaccurate and silly comments since you first opened your mouth. Your comments clearly point out that you have no business training or understanding whatsoever and that you totally lack the tiniest iota of common sense. And worse, you don't seem to know when you're in way over your head. Stop making a fool of yourself chrisvillar and join a thread or news group where you have something to contribute. I hate seeing someone so utterly embarrass themselves by their lack of knowledge of the subject matter.
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I love doing this to people. 9 times out of 10 when people get caught saying something dumb they will wiggle and wiggle and dig a deeper and deeper hole in order to save face instead of just admitting they aren't perfect. I'll tell you what. Since you can't remember saying anything contradictory, I will quote your exact words in previous posts to highlight the contradictions.
Here we go:

I did want to hear the answer. Not because I don't have my own opintions, because hearing you answer highlights your inconsistency. If they are unreliable, then why did you previously say:
"the true measure of Hyundai's success or failure in this program is not sales or market share. It is profitability or losses at the bottom of the Income Statement and how it all shakes out on the Balance
Sheet"
Why would you ask someone to look at a balance sheet that is unreliable?

HMMM, meaningless for analytical purposes. And yet previously you stated:
"Here's a link to Hyundai's Balance Sheet John. After reading it, give us a more informed opinion on how wise Hyundai was with their aggressive warranty."
Why should "John" use Hyundai's balance sheet to form an opinion if that balance sheet is "meaningless for analytical purposes."

But you implied it very strongly. You asked the world to look at the financial statements of a money losing parent company. The parent company owns Hyundai Motors which contributes about 1% of the total sales of the parent company. But somehow you jump from the financial statements of Hyundai Corp. to the conclustion that:
"[Hyundai Motors is] losing money on every sale!"
Are you not saying that Hyundai Motors is a liability rather than an asset JUST because the parent company is losing money on their overall operations?

You haven't presented any evidence. The financials for Hyundai Motors look very strong. All you've been able to successfully point out is that those financials can't be compared directly to a US company using US G.A.A.P. And you've also pointed out the obvious possibility that Hyundai Corp. MIGHT be playing a shell game with their accounting to make Hyundai Motors look more profitable than it is. But that's not evidence, it's a hunch.

Once again, let me quote your exact words:
"Here's a link to Hyundai's Balance Sheet John. After reading it, give us a more informed opinion on how wise Hyundai was with their aggressive warranty. Increased Sales don't mean squat if you're losing money on every sale!"
Not only did you say they were losing money on sales of autos, you said they were losing money on EVERY sale. Quite a bold and definitive statement. No room for doubt about what you meant.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com was so far behind that he thought he was winning the race and he actually patted himself on the back when he wrote:

chrisvillar, there is nothing more frustrating for me than to win every count of an argument/disagreement/discussion, but to have a sparring partner so delusional that they think they are winning. After a while, it becomes pointless to continue the discussion. It occurs to me that you are either totally out of touch with reality or you have someone beside you, egging you on and trying to convince you that you know what you are talking about. Although, for them to believe that, they would actually have to be dumber than you. Which is highly improbable! You seem completely devoid of any analytical reasoning ability, so you shoot back rambling, senseless, incomprehensible comments. I truly enjoy sparring with a worthy opponent, but you stopped making sense quite some time ago. In a battle of wits, you are completely unarmed. You seem to totally lack common sense. For the aforementioned reasons, I choose to discontinue responding to your silly comments, because you are simply wasting my time. You refuse to listen and learn. Sad really. It is now official - you are the 1st person I have ever felt it necessary to killfile. *PLONK*
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Good to finally catch you at a loss for words. I'm not too worried about whether you think you won an argument or not. Anybody else observing this thread will form their own opinion about which one of us was making any sense at all. In a comparison between the two of us, I'm very comfortable with how I look.
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