Toyota blames costs, not UAW, for NUMMI pullout

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If you'd owned a hideous product which now costs $20K to $40K, would you risk that money just to see if the product had improved 20 years later?
Yes or no? Don't lie.
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wrote:

Just to see if it's better? There are other ways to find out if a car company is making better models, like consumer reports and cars owned by friends. People do share information about cars, read reviews in the paper (although one must be careful because many of the reviews are poorly-disguised ads), and read car magazines. Car companies do get reputations for quality of cars.
BTW, when I buy a Ford Fusion, I don't buy an newer version of an old Mustang, but a totally different car. Ford makes some great cars and some cars that are not so good. Ditto GM, Chrysler, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Kia and all the rest (at least those sold now in the US - some like Yugo were never good).
Jeff
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The fact is every manufacturer is building great cars today. The only real difference is style and price. It seems to me one should be more concerned about how well the dealership takes care of them and what they charge for parts and service because they all, at some point need parts and service.
Look at ANY survey of buyers and they will reveal they all make around 2% that are not up the manufacturers build quality, that is why they ALL offer a warranty even Rolls Royce.
Why anyone pays more money hoping they do not get one of the 2% makes no since.
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Just to see if it's better? There are other ways to find out if a car company is making better models, like consumer reports and cars owned by friends. People do share information about cars, read reviews in the paper (although one must be careful because many of the reviews are poorly-disguised ads), and read car magazines. Car companies do get reputations for quality of cars.
BTW, when I buy a Ford Fusion, I don't buy an newer version of an old Mustang, but a totally different car. Ford makes some great cars and some cars that are not so good. Ditto GM, Chrysler, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Kia and all the rest (at least those sold now in the US - some like Yugo were never good).
Jeff
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Aside from warranty work, the dealer is the last place I'd take a car for service. That may be because I'm concerned what I'm charged.
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No since? Since means after, as in, Mike makes no sense since he started drinking again.
Where do you get your 2% figure? What does that mean? 2% of vehicles have any problems? 2% of vehicles have a problem that is severe enough to cause it to be returned under the lemon law? Only 2% of your brain is working?
Jef

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What part of "Look at ANY survey of buyers and they will reveal they all make around 2% that are not up the manufacturers build quality, that is why they ALL offer a warranty even Rolls Royce," did you not understand? Do a search and see for yourself, WBMA

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There are many would argue about that one. I had a 2001 Jeep Wrangler. Great vehicle, never any problems. Figured Chrysler was good, made good vehicles (just as you are saying?)
So I traded it on a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500. The list of problems has become absolutely incredible! Failed hubs, sensors, and a host of other mechanical problems, the paint is so thin it fails to protect the steel from rust, and on and on and on. A total piece of crap.
Sweeping generalizations such as 'every manufacturer is...' are not meaningful, since they are not true.

And the dealer that I bought the truck from turned into a major piece of crap. But revenge was in the future: they were one of the ones that Chrysler closed! I laughed hard that day. They screwed up things on a constant basis, costing me money every time due to their mistakes.

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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 19:01:41 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"

Nope. Hey, I was yanking your chain, albeit with an element of truth. I've had real good luck with GM cars, but I only buy proven track record models, used, and I'm a pretty good mechanic. Because of attitudes like yours, I get real good value, though I don't help the car manufacturers at all. Never been in my blood to buy a new car. But if I did I would do a current price/value calculation, not look at 70's, 80's cars. No sense in that. Of course I've never been burned like you have. That would no doubt change my attitude, as it has for many. As it is, I would seriously look at some GM offerings such as the Malibu or Impala, but the price would have to be right and it would have to be made in the U.S.A. Toyotas and Hondas often qualify more on that score than GM cars.
--Vic
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wrote:

Yep, I had a Chevy Beretta that had to be towed 3 - 4 times a year for every year I owned. Now my Chrysler products back then were as reliable as my Japanese cars. Problem with Chrysler is every model was cheapened until it was trash, so there was no such thing as buying a second Horizen or whatever model I had, while a second and third Honda, no brainer.
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That may be your opinion but it defies logic. The fact is GM has been the number one seller in the US since the fifties.
Do think all the millions of buyers, continue to chose to buy GM cars had problems, but bought from GM again and again be because they liked bad cars? LOL
"Joe$#itForBrains"

Please tell me what

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Liked them? No. Thought it was normal? Absolutely.
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I'm old enough to remember the cars from the '50's. People were proud of putting up with hard starting, stalling when driving through a puddle, not starting in the rain or snow, total crap suspensions with almost zero cornering traction. ANd they kept buying them because there was no alternative. A lot of people today will buy American because they feel patriotic. I can't say American cars have not gotten better, but I need a car to last at least 10 years and get close to 200,000 miles or better.
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There are many American cars that meet your requirements, like the Ford Focus and Fusion. There are many import cars that meet your requirements, too. And many import ones that don't.
Jeff
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edspyhill01 wrote:

02 Chevy Blazer - currently at 183,000+ and going strong. 97 Chevy Blazer - currently at 192,000+ Did have to replace the engine in it (former owner spun a bearing, of course not changing the oil for 3 years and running the crap out of it will do that!)
1994 S Blazer - retired it with 205,000 on it. Only reason was it took out 2 deer and I got the 97 cheap. We just used it for training at the fire station.
1990 Olds Cutlass S Retired it with somewhere over 190K, It also became training fodder (it was replaced with the 02)
1985 Pontiac (wrecked at 120K)
--
Steve W.

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Borrow another car and drive behind that Blazer. Come back and share your observations.
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Same old, same old, but if one goes to any old car show around the country they will see hundreds of those old crappy America cars, along with hundreds of the crappy cars for Europe, Great Britten and even Italy, but hardly even see ANY of those so called superior Jap cars from the same area. LOL

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Did you literally laugh out loud after you typed that?

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I do, at most of what you post

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Do you actually believe car shows are any indication of automotive quality??? They're staffed and attended by people whose HOBBY it is to dote over their cars. Prizes are given to people who've demonstrated nothing more than the ability to apply wax and maybe spend money on accessories.
Silly.

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Duh! Then WHY are there no Jap cars to preserve? At least you signed you post right, silly. ROTFLOL
"Joe$#itFor Brains"

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