Toyota blames costs, not UAW, for NUMMI pullout

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I first wanted a top quality single lens reflex 35mm camera in 1967. Tell me which, if any American-made ones were available at that time. Also, tell me how a 14 year old kid "allowed most of our manufacturing to move over seas".
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Perhaps if you'd take the jump into the 2000's (or even the 90's), you'd understand.
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I already have, but it doesn't apply to a period in history when there WERE NO top quality SLR 35mm cameras made in America, and there still aren't.
If something is not and never was made here in America but you want one, what do you suggest? Do without this unique thing, or buy something of lesser quality because it's made here?
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80 Knight wrote:

In reality, it's the mindless idiots that are always screaming "Buy American" that were responsible for so much vehicle manufacturing moving overseas, and it was the people that insisted on quality products that were responsible for so much foreign nameplate manufacturing moving back to the U.S..
It the "Buy American" crowd had joined their more intelligent fellow citizens in saying "we're not buying your crap any more" then Ford, GM, and Chrysler would have been forced to change long before getting into their current state. Instead, there were enough people that put nationalism ahead of common sense and allowed the big 3 to limp along, jumping from one fad to the next, selling mediocre quality minivans, SUVs, etc. and selling mass quantities of cars to rental car fleets, while Toyota and Honda and others were content to gain market share of the more discerning buyers.
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I love the excuse made by the faithful in discussions about why relatively new Chrysler minivans begin to stink like 30 year old Blazers: "It's not Chrysler's fault. Mitsubishi (or whoever) made the engine."
Duh. Was Chrysler forced to use those engines, not just for one model year, but for many years?
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

If I had an independent repair shop back when Chrysler minivans were so popular, I would have specialized in them. There's few vehicles that are both extremely popular and that require inordinate amounts of repairs just out of warranty. We had such a shop near one of my old jobs and did very well. I notice that it's now gone though. Not much money in repairing Siennnas and Odysseys.
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My mechanic's comment about Chrysler minivans: "Engine tolerances measured in 1/4" increments." :-)
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On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:08:05 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Chrysler minivans are some of the best vehicles on the road.
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Maybe the very latest are better, but as recently as 4-5 years ago, the engines developed a nasty stank very quickly. Burned oil as if they'd been on the road forever. You never noticed.
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My SO had a '97 Grand Voyager. It was a stripper with the 3.0L Mitibishi engine. She had two problems, both not entirely the van's fault. At around 100,000 miles she used it to tow a 24 foot sailboat around 600 miles, mostly down and up I-95 at 65+ mph. This resulted in a burnt valve - easily repaired. The van was not rated to tow anything this large. The windage on a 24 foot sailboat is huge. At around 180,000 miles the transmission went belly up. This was after another trip up I-95 - this time without the sailboat. However, the transmission had been serviced by Jiffy Lube the day before. When we checked, there was no fluid on the stick. We both suspect, but cannot prove, that Jiffy Lube screwed up. At this point the van was 9 years old and had 180,000 miles. A junk yard bought it for $500. Her experience with this van was better than with her prior vehicle - a Camry Wagon. She kept the Camry for as many miles, and it was mobile at the end. However, it leaked so many fluid from so many places she would not park it in the garage. And all the oil leaks were slowly killing off the yard. I was afaraid it was going to become an EPA superfund site. Besides all the leaks, the paint was horrid, the interior was literally falling apart, it rode like crap, and drove worse. The Plymouth van was never as bad as the Camry at any point right up until the final failure. However, to my surprise, when the van failed, she went straight back to Toyota. Any fair comparison of her prior two vehicles would have led to the conclusion that the Plymouth van was by far the better vehicle, especially considering cost, but she didn't even consider another domestic vehicle. She now has a RAV4, which is a decent vehcile except for the ergonomics which are horrid - I am amazed you can make such a large vehicle so uncomfortable and screw up the control layouts so much.
Ed
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:38:36 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I've actually owned some. You're talking the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine. It was horrible. I lost a lot of respect for Mitsubishi because of this engine.
You're talking to some one who knows cars. I'd stop if I were you before I looked like a total fool.
Yeah, they made a few mistakes. I had a 3.3 with the broken rocker tower problem. You know what? It still ran. It still got 28 MPG overall. I had no problems at 65 on the highway.
But the van was solidly built, and how many do you see on the road every day? Granted they made tons, but tons are still on the road. Once the transmission is replaced, if you do proper maintenance you'll get Toyota type mileage out of them.
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I have no idea where you get your information but the fact is the highest sales figures ever, for vehicles in the US, was nearly 19,000,000 in 2007.
In 2007 only ONE and a half million were sold to RENTAL CAR Fleets and EVERY manufacturer domestic and FOREIGN sells to RENTAL CAR Fleets.
Currently RENTAL CAR Fleets are buying just over 800,000 cars and Hyundai sells more cars to RENTAL CAR Fleets than any other manufacture and 51% are not American cars.
GM since the fifties has sold, and is still selling more vehicles than any other manufacturer in the US. Do you think all those millions of buyer are the "Buy American" crowd that have joined their more intelligent fellow citizens in saying "we're not buying your crap any more?"

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And think top posting Mike, GM days are numbered with regards to "#1". Given their last months fall off in sales, even with BO's cash for clunkers, looks like GM is still bleading money like crazy. Read GM's last quarters financial results.
Still going down the hole and sucking ever more moneys from the taxpayers.
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Are you referring to "General Motors" or "GM?"
"General Motors," IS down the drain. All that is left of "General Motors" is Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac and the closed "General Motors," plants that are yet to be sold by the bankruptcy court

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Where, old man, do you get your statistics?
In 2007, 16.15 million light vehicles were sold in the US, according to the NY Times. That was down from 16.58 milllion in 2006.
<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/business/04auto.html ? _r=1&scp=3&sq=auto+sales+2007+jan+4%2C+2008&st=nyt>
If you can't get the basic statistics right, why should be believe anything else you say?
Jeff


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You believe what you read in the NYT? LOL

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Yeah. Besides, their sales figures come directly from the auto makers.
So are you saying the automakers don't know how many vehicles they sell?
Bottom line is that you made a claim that is easily to verify about the sales of cars, I verified and found that not only did you get the number wrong (16 million is not close to 19 million), but you also got the peak year for US car sales wrong (2006 had more sales than 2007).
You can't be trusted with your facts.
Jeff

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On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:24:50 -0400, Mike fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

And unfortunately, many morons bought their cars/trucks with cash obtained from refinancing their over-valued homes.
Now look where we are...
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perfectreign
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and now want somebody else to bail them out. To hell with that.
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SMS wrote:

Personally, I prefer locally made Intel microprocessors and can hardly wait for Intel to start producing 32nm CPUs with 2.5 billion transistors apiece. BTW, Intel is one of the few companies that makes products in the US that are labelled as being from another country, which is the opposite practice of many other American firms.
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