Toyotas are for those who like to waste money on a false perception

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Toyotas are decent quality but hugely overpriced for what you get. Many American cars are as good of quality, but get you more machine for the buck.

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There are few or no objective sources of quality estimates for automobiles.
Consumers Reports is traditionally hammered as being biased. But, I bought the newest one the other day at the airport since I needed something to read on my flight.
CR does not give any domestic car a really high rating. The Buick LaCrosse gets a fair pat on the back, and the Lucerne is listed with insufficient history for a rating.
We have owned several Buicks, and loved most of them, but they have NOT been as reliable as I would prefer. Glitchy electronics problems, poor body integrity, widespread GM engine weaknesses, etc, alternator failures, poorly designed brake systems, tranny problems in some models, etc take the joy out of owning this type of vehicle.
I have never owned a Toyota, nor a Honda for that matter
I wish AAA would get involved and develop some statistics from its files of tows, road problems, etc. I could believe their data, I think.
Furthermore, I wish AAA would get involved with providing QUALITY extended warranty insurance for those members who wish to hedge their bets when they buy a new car.
From what I have read about extended warranties, they cost a good bit of cash and then play the Catch 22 card when you need them.
.
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I have owned many Toyotas, Lexus, and Honda vehicles. I found them to be no more reliable than any of the domestics I have owned. The only rear difference among vehicles today is style and price. Why anybody is willing to spend more money to buy an import, when there are so many good domestics that can be driven home for a lot less money, does not make sense to me. Many of my family members are starting to catch on to that fact as well and returning to domestic manufactures for their vehicles.
mike hunt

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Driving drunk and smashing into things doesn't count.

Are you saying that the fronts aren't styled or priced differently? Dare I ask about the left side, the right side?

That's because you are in La-La land. That and he fact that my dog knows more about cars than you do.

if it's on your recommendations, we can only hope what the outcome will be...
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Although I am often asked what to buy because of my many years experience on all aspects of the automobile business and the many brands of automobiles I have personally owned, I do not make it a practice to recommending any brand..
My suggestion is generally that one drive and price all of those that meets their particular needs, get a total drive home price for each then, and buy the one that best suits their needs and budget.
You, like every other buyer, is free to do the same. If you chose a brand that cost more than the others that is you business, I could not car less where you spend you money.
mike hunt
wrote:

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Sure you do Mike, that's why you posted;

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Why would I care where you spend your money, are you one of my illagidament offer spring? ;)
mike hunt
wrote:

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Why indeed, especially considering that you posted; -----

-----
If you ponder something to the point where you decide that it makes no sense to you, it certainly indicates that you care about it.

Does anyone besides you -know- what a "illagidament offer spring" is?
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Why would I care what an illagidament offer spring is, any more than I would care where you spend your money? LOL
mike hunt
wrote:

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Stands to reason since you authored both incoherent statements.
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It is nice to see that you have found your favorites among the cars you buy
Mike Hunter wrote:

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bought

read
CR bases it's car Reliability Reports on polling from it's members. Most CR readers demograpic are in the 60K/yr + salary rance and college educated so expect a fair number of foreign car owners which tend to be those with higher incomes and/or educaton levels.

I owned 2 Ford cars and 1 GM car over the past 15 years. Each required major repairs (over $2000+) at the 4 or 5 year age mark and after 50K miles on the clock.
Then I went and bought a Subaru. It's 13 years old now and is still running with not a SINGLE major repair required except for brake pads, plugs and the usual maintenance like oil changes. Oh...it has 233409 miles on it and it still starts up first-time-every-time each morning with NO blue oil smoke and it has never failed an emissions test.
I buy a Subaru next time also. (to hell with Ford and GM. they are nothing but union made junk)

Get them if you own an American Car. Not needed for Japanese cars. Japanese cars last double the life of an American car.
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http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8I3H4QO0.htm?sub=apn_home_down&chan
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Gosi wrote:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8I3H4QO0.htm?sub=apn_home_down&chan
Yeah, I was reading that @ the dealership having my axle seal changed under warranty.
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The survey was 217 questions. when I fill out surveys, I usually don't care much after the first 10 or so questions. I wonder how carefully the takers of the survery actually take the survey.
Also, the survey is the first 90 days of ownership. Not very helpful if you want a car to last 400,000 km.
Jeff
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I believe that Toyota and Lexus are the top brands but I still don't put much value in what JD Power says. Over the years they have rubber stamped just about every new model, even the ones that turn out to be crap.
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On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:29:23 -0400, "Bob Palmer"

in the Uk/EU, the ones they run with the BBC's top Gear program for the last 10-12 years have actually been very good (oops, just found out they've been with Experian, and not JD power for the last 4 years). Of cours,e they ask people to call in, rather than approach them, so people are more motivated to answer, and they're not talking new cars, right now they want *ahem* "To take part, you must own a car registered between 2003 and 2004 on a 03, 53, 04 or 54 plate." (for those that don't know, UK license plates stay with the car, and indicate the age of the vehicle. Its currently on its 3rd arrangement since it started in '64)
This is more the kind of survay thats of more use to the consumer, and not only addresses the car, but the dealers as well. Here's the 05 survey http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/stories/01/1.html

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http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8I3H4QO0.htm?sub=apn_home_down&chan
the
Personally, I think this sort of survey (Top Gear) is hogwash. You have to call in? Only the people that really love or really really hate their cars are going to call in (which is why I suppose French cars did so poorly). Heck, that's even worse than the almost useless Consumer Reports Survey in the US - at least CR mails all their subscribers a survey. The results for a survey where people have to call in has to be almost meaningless. At least JD Power tries to do a scientific survey. JD Powers revised thier survey this year becasue the survey results for all cars were too close together (not enough spread to make any meaningful distinctions). It still looks to me like all cars are really really good. Toyotas have about 1 problems per vehicle while "average" vehicles (Fords and Chevrolets) have about 1.2 problems per car. Not much to choose from there and certaily not worth the thousands extra Toyota owners routinely shell out for third rate designs. But I have to wonder about a survey where Porsche was tops. They certainly must have made massive improvements in the last year.
Ed
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I was reading the on-line reviews for the Chevy Cobalt. Both Kelly BlueBook, and Edmonds were pretty thorough.
Both listed positive and negative features of the car.
I guess if I were a car maker, I'd address ( and fix ) the negative perceptions perhaps in the same model year.
What are the chances that GM would do such a thing ?
Naaah... they'll probably put their bucks into another flashy add-on like chrome tail pipes.
<rj>
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http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8I3H4QO0.htm?sub=apn_home_down&chan
I've heard that if you take Lexus out of the mix, GM (minus Cadillac) gets higher ratings.
mike
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