Why are all these people knocking GM ?????????

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I started to read your post with interest, but it was so disjointed, I gave up. I guess you drank too much beer ;)
mike


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True and often forgotten. About 50% of Canada's big 2.5 vehicle production is shipped to the USA. Significant Canadian built vehicles, using parts from "anywhere", are the Chrysler Van and 300 lines. Previous models included the Chrysler FWD mid sized cars. I have a '95 Concord built in Canada and my wife has a '01 Sebring built in the USA. I believe the 2.7L engine in my wife's Sebring is built in Mexico.
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is
or
Anyone can assemble a product in the US, ask Samsung or Sony, yet they are still japanese products. Just follow the money and see where it ends up...Japan. Its funny how so many people want to claim a Toyota or Honda as an American product as if to convince themselve that they are patriotic and not some sellout.
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Keep on telling yourself that when Toyota passes GM because Toyota builds a quality product that people want to buy. Then the Big Three will be Toyota, Honda and (maybe) GM.
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says...

Great! Dont work on cars for a living do ya? The "import lovers" pay me very well. ;)
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<snip>

Well, Jim, since you like giving your money to Japan, why don't you move there and leave us the hell alone.
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That mindset of yours is what got Detroit in failure mode (massive buyouts, plant closings, cars people did not want to buy, losing market share, etc., etc., etc.). Toyota and Honda and Nissan are hiring Americans and opening plants. Unlike Detroit.
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Hmm, that is rather odd. Last time I checked, GM still outsells the rest of them. How do they do that when people don't want to buy there cars? As for plant closings, where I live, they are building the new Flex plant, where the Camaro is going to be built, so no complaints here.
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80 Knight wrote:

Fleet sales.
nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
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Congrats on getting a GM plant near where you live. They build the Chevrolet Cobalt/Pontiac Pursuit near here where I am at. It puts a lot of high paying jobs in our community. Plus besides people who work for GM; there are thousands of jobs that support the GM plant -- parts suppliers, janitorial, trades people, etc.. These thousands of people spend money in the community and help put food on the table of people who don't even work at GM.
-
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Exactly. I read in a newspaper article here once that for ever line person at my GM plant, 100 (give or take) other people are employed. And, I know for a fact that if the GM plant in Oshawa closed down, my entire municipality would close up as well. People who aren't effected by this usually don't understand it.
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No they don't care to understand they are just loyal to the flag of the Rising Sun in Japan.
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don't understand it.

Timmy Dont be such a redneck. People are trying to relate their own personal experiences.
This has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, the KKK, or the Communist party.
People who wont listen and learn are doomed. There is not a single complaint that has been aired here that does not have some merit.
I have no dog in the fight where GM is concerned. But I KNOW what my issues are, and GM has done little or nothing to address them.
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have
issues
But you have to admit a lot of people support Japanese simply because of pure hype and that "there ice is colder" mentality. I also know from experience from 2 family members who have owned a Toyota and the other had 2 Mazdas and can say that the mazdas flat out did not hold up well in mechanics or ride quality and the Toyota just always had lingering problems. And I am driving a 97 Pontiac that has only given me 1 problem which is the Intake gasket failure, other than regular maintenance this car has performed great up to today with 133k miles.
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There may be some people who believe that Japanese is best, as some used to believe that German engineering and quality was superior...(maybe it was, at one time).
The statistics that are published seem to show that certain models of Honda and Toyota are significantly less likely to have failures than the norm. I am sure they have their problems too.
The Japanese have a pretty good reputation for repairing their errors with no hassel from dealerships or corporate. True or not, I do not know.
My complaint with GM had to do with older short warranties (36000 miles) and failure to address key issues in quality that GM KNEW were their fault. The plastic plenum is only one of them. (Volkswagen has the same shitty reputation)
GM has made some progress on warranties, and we can hope that they will listen to what their clients want, and what we dont want, and will respond positively.
The problem has been squarely in GM's court... The Japanese didnt get a good reputation by behaving in this manner. Maybe this is an innovation of the Asians that GM can copy.
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hls wrote:

I would say mostly true. I know a friend of mine had his butt kissed by Infiniti on a cheap used G20 back in the day (overrevved it because he missed a shift, got a free new head even after he told the dealership what he did.) I don't know if that is still true but stories like that are plentiful and contribute to the reputation of the Japanese as being overall more forgiving and pleasant to deal with.

Agreed!
Which is a shame because a lot of VW's problems are supplier problems not problems directly attributable to the engineering or build quality of their vehicles. They're really excellent, solid cars BUT handling of warranty claims by VWoA is... not so good. Don't get me started on the number that I personally have knowledge of... like the A4 window regulators, coil packs, and the A2 heater cores... had VW handled these issues better, they could have built themselves a nice reputation for standing behind their product, but their manner of handling these issues was totally out of character with the overall quality (and let's be honest, purchase price) of their vehicles.

Absolutely.
nate
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If one listened to the import buyer one might think all GM cars fall apart when the warranty expires.
I take my 1971 Pinto with 300K on the clock, (you know how bad they were,) to old car shows and it wins awards. Except a 'Z' car or an RX& on occasion, I have yet to see a Jap sedan from the seventies or even the eighties at one of those shows. Lot of British cars (you know how bad they were, German and even Italian sedans but never a Jap car from that time period. LOL
mike

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Mike, You are obviously a reasonably intelligent person. Therefore why do think just because no Japanese cars from the 70's are at the shows it is indicative of them being crap? And that because someone with more money than common sense will spend big bucks on the crappy Brit and Italian cars of that era makes them better? You are old enough to remember what lumps of crap those German and Brit cars were, just as you know that the Japanese cars of that time were not any better or worse than the European cars.
You are also smart enough to know that today the products produced by the Japanese companies receive much higher customer (real world) satisfaction ratings as reported by that left wing socialist magazine CR.
I truly wish that cars made by GM, Ford and the half Nazi company using the Chrysler name were better products. However they are what they are; more of a problem to their owners than Japanese cars.

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of
The Pinto was a POS from the word go but probably sold more copies in the US than all the Japanese makers put together in 1971. Not that their quality was that great either but getting an award for a Pinto is like gettng an award for having a dropped bomb that didn't explode. Sorry couldn't resist ..............but not kidding about the difference in numbers. Had a 66 Mustang that's still one of my favorite cars so not just bashing Ford.
During the 80's GM had 12month no rust through warranties. What more needs to be said about quality. If not for the Japanese you'd have to pick up Bondo on your way home from the dealership after buying new Detroit "iron".
Meanwhile, back to the future, the only 2 Japanese cars I have experience with is my father-in-laws Accord and a rental Mitsubishi Gallant. The Accord is a great car. The Gallant is a POS. My G Am is much closer to the Accord than the Gallant. Especially considering age differences. It certainly can't be said all Jap cars are better.
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T Shadow wrote:

Mitsushitty is in a class by itself. The only thing they have going for them is the reputation of the other Japanese mfgrs. and the fact that they, too are Japanese.
nate
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