Both companies used single and double sided galvanized steel in lower body
components. The rust problem developed later in Fords, than GM vehicles,
because GM used steel made by US Steel Co and Ford used steel made by
Bethlehem Steel Co. BSCO switched to BOF steel several years after USS.
The best steel used in cars today is the 'dentless sheet' steel made by the
Mittal Steel Co, at the former BSCO Burns Harbor Michigan plant. Most of
the steel used in Japanese cars, assembled in the US and Canada, is made by
Nippon Steel Co and imported from Japan
Rusting cars of yore had little to do with how cars were treated or painted.
The rust that started to appear in cars in the early seventies was a result
for a new steel making process know as the Basic Oxygen Furnace. Pryor to
the BOF, steel was produced in open-hearth furnaces. O-HF used fuel oil to
melt the mix of iron and its amalgams in a tub like furnace. The BOF did
not use a fuel but rqather the combustibles in the mix by burning them in a
high oxygen atmosphere, blown through the mix via a stainless steel lance
driven down into a ladle like electric furnace. After a time, as cars the
used BOF steel began to rust, it became apparent the "blow" needed to be a
few second longer to completely eliminate the impurities that remained in
the steel. In other word the rust started within the steel, not from the
outside. Current BOF steel is "cleaner" than O-HF steel.
It is an awesome experience to see the blow rod driven down into a 100 ton
vat at several feet per second, as it is consumed with a deafening roar.
That's wierd, because when I worked for Toyota, most of the major
repairs where on the used cars that usually GMC, Chevy, Ford,
Mazda..American vehicles and when I worked at Dodge and Chevy most of
the major repairs was on Dodge and Chevy's. Don't figure....who knows.
I'm patriotic, but I don't like spending my free time working on my own
cars, my friends and my families cars.
Who ever assembles the Toyotas or Hondas do a great job, because they
are by far more reliable and dependable. Maybe there has been a SMALL
decline in the workmanship of these vehicles, but not too much.
I have owned Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mazda, VW, Honda and Toyota vehicles
and out of all of these cars the Toyota and Honda vehicles needed less
work and lasted the longest.
To each their own.
Jim Higgins wrote:
If you want to talk about assembly quality, GM's Oshawa car plant has been
ranked as the highest quality plant in North or South America, by J.D. Power
& Associates. And that, is a fact. We won it last year as well.
Good for you guys. Of the last three GM cars I've owned, only one had a
minor assembly problem that was fixed easily by the dealer. Paint and fit
of body parts has been greatly improved over anything in the past. GM has
made big strides in assembly over the past 15 or 20 years.
What they still lack though, is some better designs on some models.
Assembly though, is only of factor in making a quality car that sells well.
When you sell millions of vehicles, pennies sure add up, but if they added
$50 to the cost of a car, they could probably save the consumer thousands in
repair bills. I should not have to hold the cruise control on by jamming
the switch with a toothpick. I should not have to prop up the power windows
with a stick of wood. I should not have to replace a $560 seat bottom to
replace a $15 heating element. They make great car that lasts for 75,000
Those are your own experences. I have owned 9 cars. 8 Pontiac's and 1
Oldsmobile. I loved each and every one of them. Sure, some had problems, but
the ones that had the major problems were into the 300,000 KM's range. I
just find it odd that some people say there Toyota will never break down.
Give me a break. I don't care what you buy, it will break down on occasion.
Of course, all cars can break down, and some are lemons....I dont believe
anyone here said
that a Toyota will never break down.
Some of us here have had LOTS of trouble with GM cars. And we are frankly
not too happy
No, but some of you seem to think Toyota's are gifts from God.
I have had break down's as well, and I wasn't happy about it either. It
happens. Cars break down. Computers break down. TV's break down. It is a
fact of life. All my point is if you don't like GM, then that beg's the
question, why are you here? If all you have to say about GM is bad, then
what is the point?
You don't get my meaning. Everyone has the 'right' to be in a newsgroup.
What I am asking is why would you want to be in one, where all you do is
bitch and moan? I, for example, don't like Honda's, but I don't go to the
Honda newsgroup and bitch about how ugly there cars are. I also don't watch
Survivor, and you won't find me there either. Like I said, everyone has the
right to be in any group, but it is rather Trollish to only participate
I've voiced my opinion on this matter a couple of times, directly to the
Death Watch Guard. I'm no believer in GM, right or wrong, but I've been a
GM guy for decades. I'm very disappointed in some of the longstanding
issues that GM has put us through, like the 60 degree gasket issues, and I
believe GM has brought a great deal of their current distress upon
themselves, but on the other hand I don't care to see the GM Is Dying, It
Ain't Soon Enough threads. There's those who cross post their stuff and
bring nothing to this group besides clutter, and I'd just as soon see them
take their rants to some other group.
I *remember* good GM vehicles. Heck, my dad still has one in his
driveway. I'm here because a) I do have a fondness for the older GM
products and b) I currently have an '05 Impala as a company car (no
choice in the matter.) Is it wrong to stand up and express my honest
opinion when people say things like "you're unpatriotic if you don't
buy GM" or "there's no difference between a GM car and (insert import
maker of your choice here)" or should I just nod and say yes, you're
right, GM certainly doesn't have any ergonomic, performance, or quality
issues these days and public perception of their inferiority must
simply be a mass delusion?
Personally I think we do GM and ourselves a disservice by not
expressing our dislike of their current product offerings and not
encouraging them to build the products that we really want to buy.
You keep saying the same things over an over but the fact of the mater is
more American still buy millions more vehicles from GM than any import.
Obviously your opinion has not contributed to who buys what, so why do you
keep saying the same things about GM in a GM NG, where most buyer disagree
with what you have to say about how bad you think their vehicles might be?
If you don't like what GM has to offer, buy something else and stop
If all you have
Of course I keep saying the same things. Your posts do nothing to
change the FACTS that my Impala is an annoying POS, the FACT the
widespread perception of American buyers is that American cars are of
inferior design and quality to imports, and the FACT that imports offer
higher resale value, are more pleasant to drive, and generally are more
reliable and durable than their American counterparts. Also I don't
have time to continuously prove your assertions wrong, but you have
been wrong with your sales figures in the past, and I suspect that you
don't really check them, you just make shit up.
The problem is that GM is full of apologists like you who just can't
understand why we DO buy something else. I would LOVE to see GM
healthy and offering something I want to buy. Please, GM, start
Neither Mikey nor GM is apt to listen any time soon, both have a dead end
mindset. To think that the Board and Marketing that got GM into this hole
is the same set that is going to fix the mess is ludicrous.
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