2012 Civic "Panned"

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Looks like Honda has a "bust" with the new Civic per Consumer Reports. The review did not recommend the car which tested near the bottom of similar
sedans with weak handling and brakes and degraded quality over the previous Civic . Top rated was the Hyundai Elantra. The "porked-up" Accord is also rated down somewhat with just average reliability. While I am going to hang on to my 06 Accord I4 coupe with 82k miles for quite some time, if I were looking for a new car I would probably find myself looking at Nissan (Altima) -- their 6 speed coupe I4 appeals to me, or Kia or Hyundai. Looks like Honda's heyday is over I am sad to say.
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Personally I think CR has learned that the best way to gain attention for their publication is to print a scathing review of a product that is otherwise expected to get a positive review. As soon as they do that, it makes headlines as a "shocker" in so many publications, which is good advertising for them.
One of the recent examples of this is their review of the iPhone 4, which everyone seems to forgot they gave their dreaded "not recommended" rating. Yet I haven't met any iPhone 4 users who regret getting one.
I have a friend that bought a 2012 Civic LX, I have driven it, and I can confirm it is far superior to the prior model Civic. It is a little pricier than Korean makes, but go look at the Edmunds.com ratings on this car for folks that actually own one, they all love them. She compared to Corolla, Elantra and a couple of American makes (not sure which).
Honestly if I were looking for a small car for around this price range right now, it would probably be my first choice. Consumer Reports has done some goofy things in recent years, especially up-rating American cars for reliability which turn out to be a money pit down the road, proving that CR predictions for reliability is not what it used to be. I wonder what is their basis for downgrading the reliability? I am looking forward to getting the issue and reading the actual review.
I used to think very highly of CR reviews but it seems like the predicted reliability of their studies is coming under question more and more.
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I just received my copy of CR and read the review after posting the above post. It's not really scathing -- it's not a good review, but not as bad as I assumed it would be.
What's more, the negative characteristics they described were NOT characteristic of my friend's Civic LX, nor of the one we test drove before we bought it. I've seen comments on various blogs about this today that also say their test drive or ownership experiences seem vastly different from this CR review.
It makes one wonder if CR just got a lemon? Now granted there was a time when Honda and lemon weren't even spoken in the same paragraph, but Japan did suffer a major tsunami and nuclear crisis which did affect the supply chain to some degree.
They are still predicting better than average reliability, and that's one of the reasons one chooses a Honda over other brands. They picked on Toyota last year, looks like Honda is their scapegoat this year. If anyone is considering this car I would just say try it for yourself, because it is very likely that your experience will differ from what the CR testers reported.
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The Honda "quality" smoke and mirrors has been fully exposed over the last 10 years to be just that--smoke and mirrors.
Anyone who buys Honda, or who pays a premium to get a Honda, because of their "quality" anymore is a sucker. Honda is trading off their past now. It ain't there anymore.
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So which company took Honda's place now?
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"Cameo" wrote in message wrote:

So which company took Honda's place now?
Actually, it appears that the question was answered in the Consumers Reports review -- Hyundai and even Nissan has arisen from the ashes of its demise some years ago.
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On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:14:20 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

Not really interested in taking troll bait for a usenet flame session where we both exchange opinions stated as fact.
The fact is that everyone I've heard from who has actually driven this car thinks Consumer Reports is on drugs after this review, and the CR review conflicts with almost every other review written, in multiple criterion areas.
Here's one such conflicting report.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sns-carscom-recommends-the-2012-honda20110802,0,1086182.story?track=rss
And here's another one....while Consumer Reports cites poor quality interior, road noise and unrefined ride, Car and Driver said "the new Civic sedan isolates its driver and occupants from the outside world in a way its predecessors did not. Assembly and materials are high quality, and for the driver whose requirements are limited to competence and comfort, the 2012 Civic will do very nicely".
Car and Driver seems to understand that the Civic is not designed to be a sports car, they have aimed for a more cushy ride.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q2/2012_honda_civic_ex_sedan-short_take_road_test
The fact is this car gets great mileage, great crash test results, is cosmetically improved from the prior generation Civic and looks better than the competition, has a great instrument panel, less road noise than the prior generation, drives great if you prefer a refined feel over a sporty feel, and is sure to have the signature long-term reliability advantage over the competition. Its not a perfect car but Civics are economy cars and Honda has done a good job of upscaling their flagship economy car in the right amounts. Owner reviews on this car are coming back extremely high, and anyone who has actually owned a Honda knows they don't spend much time in the repair shop, relative to other makes.
Side note, the Ford Focus and Chevy Cruze were also not recommended by the CR review. I'd hate to be owning one of those terds after the warranty wears off.
Besides, I don't know why anyone would lend you any credibility, when on 5/26/2010 in alt.autos.lexus, you proclaimed:
"Bullshit. If so, you'd have noticed that EVERY car you've "traded" up to in the last 10 years does not include an ashtray, that the ashtray is an option you have to buy and install. So you're nothing but a worthless troll."
.... when in fact my 2011 Lexus IS 350 does have an ashtray (they all do, I didn't order it). Be careful what you write, it only takes one post to show the world you don't know WTF you're talking about.
Have you even driven a Civic? If not, I don't see how you can justify your contributions to this thread.
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No troll here. Nuthin' but facts.
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You mean, your dealer installed the factory option onto it before you ever saw the car.
Factories don't install ashtrays anymore. Haven't for many, many years.
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My 2009 F150 has a factory installed ash tray.
Ed
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You mean where Wayne talks about this:
http://www.lexus.com/models/RX/accessories/ashtray.html
???
Because Lexus stopped putting in ashtrays years ago, and needed to offer an accessory for those who just had to have one?
Just like I said.
What you think of me, is meaningless--to me and to the world.
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well, anyone who looks at Wayne's post can see it as clear as day.
For some reason, you can't.
Huh.
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And there's a guy down on the streetcorner telling us that the aliens have landed and that the world is coming to an end next year. So?
Lexus doesn't say that the IS comes with an ashtray. Funny thing. Of course, in your world, Lexus must be wrong.
That's OK. If Lexus is wrong, then Lexus is wrong. Maybe Lexus made a mistake when making up the brochures. Wouldn't be the first time.
Care to show us a picture of what you're talking about?
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That's not an ashtray in an IS.
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Ah, another one who doesn't understand conversational implicature.
(Or, more likely, one who chooses not to...)
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wow. I mean, just wow. Have you ever participated in this newsgroup before?
Clearly not.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Heh heh... Thanks for stirrin the pot Shag!
<G>
JT
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wrote:

The stirring sound you hear is his game of pocket pool. He got caught, pants down having some fun making glue and is trying to save face now.
http://i.imgur.com/Rm1uM.png
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wrote:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sns-carscom-recommends-the-2012-honda20110802,0,1086182.story?track=rss
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q2/2012_honda_civic_ex_sedan-short_take_road_test
I am not a fan of Consumer Reports BUT.....I feel that giving a lot of credence to the opinions of magazines / newspaper that depend on advertising revenue from auto manufacturers is risky as well. The Chevrolet Vega was "Car of the Year." When was the last time Car and Driver really trashed a new model? But if you really trust C&D it should be noted that they preferred the Focus over the Civic. From
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/11q2/2012_ford_focus_se_vs._2012_honda_civic_ex-comparison_tests/2012_ford_focus_se_page_3
"Add it all up, and the Focus beats the Civic. Our winner nearly matches the fuel economy of the Civic while providing one-class-up levels of refinement and driving dynamics. The Focus has now faced every major competitor in its segment, and despite its transmission, it has vanquished them all. It is now our undisputed compact car of choice."
And C&D was not excatly kind to the new Civic:
"From all this, you could surmise that Honda is shrewdly chasing consumers moving out of full-size cars and into smaller metal. There is a sluggish, big-car feel to this compact. We never thought we'd say this, but it's the Honda, not the Ford, that feels as if it is built by the same people who brought you the Lincoln Town Car.
"Other Town Car attributes include a comfy back seat. Honda took an inch out of the Civic's wheelbase, yet the rear bench remains comfortable for two and usable for three; total interior real estate is up by four cubic feet. A massive windshield and large side windows reduce the sensation of compact-car confinement and offer sweeping sightlines. Redesigned front seats are now more agreeable than before, though a flat bottom cushion kept the Civic from beating the Ford's comfort score. And about that tan velour upholstery: "If it smelled like Tareyton cigarettes, it could be from my Aunt Rose's Buick Skylark," quipped Phillips.
"Maturity has come to the Civic. For the downsizing car buyer, that may make it easier to live with than before. For the small-car enthusiast, it's a step back"
At best this damning the Civic with faint prasie.

Owner reviews of new vehicles, especially expressed close to the purchase date, are almost always positive. It is rare for someone to trash a car they just bought. When they do trash a car they just bought, you have to wonder about their judgement. CR surveys owners. One of the questions is "would you buy the same car again." The top two small cars are VWs.....This is enought to make me lose all respect for owner surveys.

I've not owned a Focus, but I have owned several other Fords in the last decade and they have done very well from a reliability standpoint. At least as good as my Sister's '98 Civic (which despite being reliable was a total POS).
While I've never personally owned a Honda, several family members have. Although they have generally proven to be reliable, they don't seem to be exceptionally reliable. I've considered Honda's a few of times (Accord, Pilot, CRV) but never settled on one mostly becasue they don't seem to cater to my body style, seem over priced, and generally generate about as much excitement as watching paint peel. The closest I came to buying a Honda in recent years was buying a used S2000 - but I could never find one in decent shape at what I considered a reasonable price.

Opinions are opinions. Justification not required.
Ed
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The photos in the "What the Problem Looks Like" section are of a poor- quality repaint, not of the problem faced by the Odyssey owners in the section immediately following.
The Web page gives a link to the actual Odyssey TSB. You should read it, and look at the photos in that TSB. See how different they are from the pics of the Accord's peeling clear-coat.
Also, I'm not impressed with the claim that the '98 Accord has "almost 100 complaints" of peeling paint. Firstly, that Accord sold in the tens of thousands. Secondly, anybody can complain, but how many of those compliants turned out to have merit? The Web page does not say. Even the NHTSA does not typically respond to "safety" complaints until at least 1,000 have been received, specifically because of the very large number of groundless complaints it receives every day.
That Web page is grossly misleading. Of course. Anybody can post anything on the Internet.
--
Tegger

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