Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

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Tell ya what, you give me a good citation on whatever Honda is proposing be flown-by-wire, and I'll give you meaningful commentary.
So far, I think people haven't any clue as to what's under consideration here.
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David E. Powell wrote:

cT = 0.99
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I was taught this once, but like other stuff we don't use, you forget it go in a general since, it works like this:
In the GM throttle body, it has 3 electronic signals to compare to, one being a mirror of itself. If it looses two of them then there may be an issue (I believe) If you were to have an catastrophic failure, the car goes to limp home mode and gives you a crawl speed.

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Steve H wrote:

I've not seen any redundant sensors in any GM vehicle I've worked on. My current '97 truck with the 7.4l Vortec V8 certainly has no redundancy in it's sensors. A single sensor each for throttle position, intake air temperature, mass air flow, etc. Certainly if it looses one of the sensors to the extent it can detect it, it will enter limp mode, but absent redundant sensors, there are failure modes that the computer has no way to detect.
Pete C.
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Were talking the electronic throttle body=no throttle cable. and it sends the 3 signals along the same wire (I believe Now I'm gonna have to find that book...
--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
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******What significant performance, control, and reliability benefits do you see from the by-wire system ( as it has been defined as applying to the Honda application)?
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

and go to 100% throttle. but your engine's only good for wot above 4k rpm. you need to shift. but it's a stick and you don't. but you do get some pull up to about 60% throttle. why throw away 40% that's not being utilized? electronic control saves you gas.
ok, so you don't drive a stick, but you have an old hydraulic automatic. again, you want to go up a steepish hill and because it won't pull at low rpm's, you need the transmission to shift. it won't until you kick it to the floor because the transmission can't detect load, only whether you've operated the kickdown. sure, you can manualy over-ride, but why? electronic controls know exactly the engine load and can therefore determine the grade of hill. selection of gear ratio and throttle position is /much/ better.
besides, what's with this misconception that we need direct throttle linkage? anyone here ever worked on diesels? anyone here know that the diesel govenor does? there's no direct linkage to fuel injection on a diesel - it's all done by the govenor. if that thing fails, you have ZERO engine control. diesels have been like this from day 1.
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Wrong. Remember the vacuum operated modulator valve? They worked great until the diaphram broke and ATF got sucked into the engine. Those were the days, man, those were the days....
sure, you can manualy over-ride, but why?

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Few use manual transmissions now, and even if they did, the 'by wire' technology would not change a thing.
Even with diesels, 'by wire' actuation does nothing unique.
IF automated highways ever became a reality, then a totally electronic system might be the way to go...collision avoidance, route selection, traffic flow optimization, police interception, etc...all might be controlled by computer...
I think I will stay home if that ever happens...
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Just think, though, no more speeding tickets.
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OK, Sparky... You've been itching for it, so here it is - *MY* application of "ain't technology wonderful?!?":
<PLONK>
(It's called a killfile - It's a sort of "storage area" for morons and fools who have nothing useful to say, but insist on running their clueless mouths anyhow - Say "buh-bye", Sparky... You no longer exist in my world. Which is a great improvement over 5 minutes ago.)
--
Don Bruder - snipped-for-privacy@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
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Don Bruder wrote:

How nice - so you're no longer in mine, either.
Your overreaction to my posts has been noted.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

I'm not sure about the Honda system, but the GM system allows the computer to use the throttle to make other things that are happening transparent to the driver. I know that the new v-8's with the 4-8 cylinder technology use the electronic throttle to make the shift from 4-8 cylinder transparent. The electronic throttle is also used to "improve" tranmission shift quality. There are bound to be all sorts of good reasons why you want to control the throttle. Personally, as a tech that works on the vehicles, I hate the fact that I can no longer "blip" the throttle under the hood. I can use a scan tool to change rpm, but there is no way, other then using a helper, to rev the engine quickly anymore.
I also find that many of the vehicles have a very "disconnected" feeling from the throttle. Some are better then others, so I'm sure it's just a matter of tweaking the calibrations.
Now when it comes to "steering by wire".....I'm not sure that I'd be in favour of that.
Ian
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David E. Powell wrote:

I wouldn't worry about not having a mechanical connection.
We have had electronic throttles for a long time with very few problems. We have also had hydraulic brakes since the 1930's with very very few problems of total failure.
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John S. wrote:

Yet brakes still fail now and then, from lines going bad, slipping, etc.
My only question, however, was regarding the steering should power be lost. I have had experience with an engine going offline while at speed, and would prefer to maintain some steering control if I ever found myself in a similar situation! Dittos for you or anyone else hwo happened to be out on the road with me. I still am not sure about whether Honda has or is going to have DBW steering, and as for throttle, I asked at another dealership today. None of the sales staff really had any specifics on how DBW throttle works, or if they are going to do steering that way. The write up book I saw on the features and specifications for the forthcoming Honda SI Civic (Which I had heard would have it at the other place) had no mention at all of any DBW throttle or features. If they are trying to "slip it in there" like that at Honda, that's pretty sneaky. Truth be known, if the one salesperson hadn't told me, I might never have known to ask.
David
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