Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

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Common sense and reality are not Mikey's strong points.
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Jim Higgins wrote:

You noticed that too?
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I suspect that if fuel prices continue to climb, the used-car market will get to be sufficiently saturated with SUVs that the things will become real bargains to acquire. They'll become affordable to people who'd like to have them as actual utility or occasional-use vehicles (like, say, for ski trips or runs to Ikea), as opposed to daily drivers. I certainly wouldn't mind having one for that sort of use.
Geoff
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I look back to the 1950s when there were no SUVs and very little pickups and people got around just fine. I know lifestyles have changed since then, but I think it is more cost-effective to take the two days off from work a year that it snows bad enough, rather than purchase a $35,000 SUV especially with $3.00 a gallon gas prices.
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I lived in the mountains of Western Virginia for many years. We needed a SUV or any type of vehicle that had 4 wheel drive. You would not believe how dangerous it is to drive to work each day when the roads are covered with snow or ice. It's possible to buy a SUV for less than $35,000. Honda has a SUV that cost about $22,000. Kia probably has at least one SUV that cost much less than $35,000. Jason
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Subaru has the Forester which Consumers Reports rates as "Top Pick" in the small SUV category. Around 22,000(US) I have one (04 Forester XS). I get 34mpg (Imperial Gallons). I occasionally tow my utility trailer, Forester is rated to tow 2400lbs. I can carry 5 people comfortably. Subaru has one of the top "Owner Satisfaction" and "reliability" ratings on the market today. Plus, If I want to go fast, really fast, I could have gotten the XT (Turbo) model with over 240hp, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. To top it all off, these are reallly easy to re-sell when the time comes, they are hard to find used. If, and when I need more vehicle for whatrever trip or purpose, I'll rent it for the day, or weekend, whatever.

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The point is there are plenty of good SUVs available on the market that can be had for around the same price, and get as good fuel mileage, as a mid size sedan. Many a mid size sedan carry only five passengers. To say people don't NEED SUVs is ridiculous
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

I think you're ignoring what I said and responding to what you think I said. There's a huge difference.
Although it is MY OPINION that many people that own SUV's don't need them, it does not mean that I don't think that anyone who wants one shouldn't go right out and buy one. Hell, I was in the military for 24 years so I could defend American's right to do what they want within the law.
I was merely bringing up my opinion for discussion in light of the discussion regarding American car makers problems and the rising gas prices. Stating my opinion as long as I don't force it on anyone should not be considered "communism" or "ridiculous".
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On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:28:10 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Most people who buy SUVs don't need them and would be better off with another type of vehicle.
But to take your challenge, I went to Edmunds.com to see if I could find a 4WD SUV for about the same price as a 4 cyl Accord EX using their "True Market Price." I admit I didn't look at every possible SUV but I looked at least ten likely candidates and threw them out until I found four that were less than $2000 higher than the Accord. The four were Escape, CRV, Santa Fe and RAV4. I equipped them all with mid to high end trim, AT and the smallest available engine. The SUVs ended up costing $500 to $1300 more than the Accord.
        Escape    CRV        Santa Fe    Accord    RAV4 City         19 mpg.     22 mpg.     18 mpg.     24 mpg.     23 mpg. Highway     22 mpg.     27 mpg.     23 mpg.     34 mpg.     27 mpg.
All of these SUVs are "crossovers" and none can match the milage of the Accord.
http://tinyurl.com/qqkax
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mpg. 23 mpg.

mpg. 27 mpg.

I visited the suzuki.com website and found out that they have an SUV (Suzuki XL-7) for sale that starts out at $21,999. It's my guess that a 4 cyld. Accord EX starts out at MORE than $21,999. Jason
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:27:17 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/nakrq
The $21,999 vehicle is a 2 wheel drive SUV in base trim. The Accord EX lists higher but the invoice is lower and the "True Market Value" is about the same. If you want 4WD, it will cost you about $1000 more than the Accord according to Edmunds. Of course, you can also get a Value Edition Accord for about $17,700. That is $4000 less than the cheapest XL-7.
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Hmm; from what I know of the 1950s, the pickups were actually pretty big. The very little ones didn't come out until the 1960s, when Datsun started importing them.
Geoff
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You are forgetting that lots of people had Jeeps in the 1950's. Lots of people purchased Jeep Cherokees in the 1960's. I don't remember whether or not the pickups made in the 1950's had four wheel drive. Jason
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Bob Palmer wrote:

I alway felt that if I needed an SUV to get to work I should stay home that day. Only people in critical jobs (i.e. nurses, doctors etc.) can say they NEED an SUV to get to work on bad snow days.
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Some can't take off work, they 'need' the money. LOL
mike hunt

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On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:46:00 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

They wouldn't need the money if they hadn't bought that monster truck LOL.
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If it takes one a days pay, to buy fuel to get to work for a day, he working at the wrong place ;)
mike hunt
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On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:40:54 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

It doesn't have to consume your entire day's pay in fuel to break your back financially. And don't forget about the monthly payments on the beast. You might be surprised at how many people are "truck poor."

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Statically those that buy cheaper new vehicles and used vehicles finance a larger portion of the selling price, for a longer period of time, than those that buy new and more expensive vehicles. Seems to me they would be the ones being hurt the most by higher fuel costs not those with vehicles that cost 50K or more ;0
For instance I have not financed a new vehicle in over thirty years and I buy a new vehicle every year. ;)
mike hunt
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wrote:

A better statement would be: On average, Imports have better reliability than GM and Ford. Some GMs and Fords do better than the imports on particular applications. I don't see many import police cars. Most are Ford Crown Vics and Chevys. Corporate fleet managers learn which cars work well for their fleets and buy those. And some imports have big reliability problems. Most don't.
Jeff
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