Which To Buy?

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Brake fluid deteriorates as does transmission fluid. It only makes sense to change fluids to prolong the life of the machinery.
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On 3/3/07 8:32 AM, in article lGfGh.2690$Du6.2230@edtnps82, "Brian Smith"

matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas.
In fact, unlike Honda, changing brake fluid is not on the maintenance list for any of the Nissans and changing transmission fluid is only by condition, not time or mileage.
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But it matters to people who perform preventative maintenace on their vehicles.

Just because Nissan forgot to include it on heir 'list' doesn't mean that it doesn't have (or shouldn't) be changed.
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I should add that I am the manager for a truck fleet (all automatic transmission equipped), the transmission fluid and filtres are replaced every year as part of the fleet's preventative maintenance program.
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Brian Smith wrote:

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Common sense, really. Since implementing this procedure, transmission problems and failures have ceased to occur. The replacement of the transmission fluid and the filtres cost in the range of $300.00 to $400.00, much less expensive than repairing or replacing an Allison transmission in a large truck.
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Brian Smith wrote:

lower failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed anything in their transmissions? and what was the failure mode? metal fatigue for instance is not known to be influenced by oil filter cleanliness. clutch life isn't rally affected by it either. operation tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission.
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In the past the transmission fluid and filtres hadn't been changed except when the transmissions displayed problems (not shifting correctly, jumping in and out of gear). Once I implemented the yearly changes, there have been no further issues with any of the transmissions. The down time that was experienced in the past was a killer on the schedules. They are specialized trucks and one can't rent replacements from Ryder, so they have to be working properly every day, all day long.
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Brian Smith wrote:

ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.
this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.
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I know what you're saying, but we don't live in an ideal world <g>. Doing what I did was the logical step towards solving the problem(s), with Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a grand when looking for the answer.
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Brian Smith wrote:

have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem. from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service feedback as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody bothers to let the design team know [not the service tech] that their filters clog outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in san francisco, a number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by auto makers so we have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in taxi livery charging up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills, etc. they do this so they can install "black box" data recorders in them and find out how their vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly city. they do it in las vegas too for heat. if they have the data, they can design accordingly. no data, inadequate design.
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I do understand what you are saying, but a small fleet of trucks doesn't seem to draw their attention. I would think that one truck having problems with their product would garner attention, but not yet.
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Brian Smith wrote:

want to resolve the issue - either a local or corporate decision. when i was a pup at university, one of my professors did some consulting work with one of the big auto manufacturers to help them limit the life of their transmissions via metal fatigue. [it's a very hard technical problem because things tend to either break right away, or last forever.] but the point is, life limitation is very much on the agenda in certain situations. i'm not sure it would be for commercial applications, at least from a corporate standpoint, but you may have been up against local sales quotas, and failures are a sales opportunity.
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All true.
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On 3/3/07 1:50 PM, in article nkkGh.3242$cE3.3113@edtnps89, "Brian Smith"

Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of car owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less, not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have specified something.
I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.
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E Meyer wrote:

And the end result is that Hondas experience less non-routine problems than Nissans do.
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On 3/3/07 10:12 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@hightech.misfit, "High Tech

I really haven't seen that result on the ones I've directly experienced. Given my limited experiences (6 Hondas and 6 Nissans over about 18 years), I have to say the vote goes in the other direction.
The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle body cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30).
With the Hondas, we've had ABS systems fail on two out of two mid 90's cars ('95 Integra & '96 Odyssey) and one transmission failure ('00 TL). These cars were well maintained with brake fluid changes and transmission fluid changes according to the published schedules. Clearly design flaws. Honda made good on the transmission, but they never owned up to the ABS problems on those cars.
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E Meyer wrote:

It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid. A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble.
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One of the most troublesome cars I've ever had was an '85 300ZX. There were problems related to poor maintenance, especially the use of straight water in the cooling system (I violated my rules for used car standards because I lusted after the car). But the real killer was in the electrical system. At 17 years and 150K miles it was developing new intermittents faster than I could track them down. A few years before, an intermittent connector on the ignition coil caused it to die half a dozen times a day for two months. The first month it didn't even stay dead a minute at a time... very frustrating.
Mike
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On 3/4/07 6:51 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@hightech.misfit, "High Tech

My daughter's daily driver is a '91 240sx. Non-routine maintenance costs on this 16 YO car so far have only been a starter, a window motor and one fuel injector, basically next to nothing.
The electrical ghosts in the '02 Pathfinder are irritating. If not for the fact that I do my own car maintenance this sort of thing could get very expensive and frustrating very easily. I don't think I'm ready to move it all the way to the category of crap, but I have to agree with you that it does seem to be a step down in apparent quality from the older ones. Compared to the transmission defect in my similar vintage '00 Acura TL though, it still comes out ahead.
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