battery, cold weather, jump staring, etc.

Hello,

I think my battery is on its way out. I've got a 1.4L HDi citroen c3. I have driven other diesels before and I always turned the key and had to wait for the glow plug light to go out before starting the car. The c3 is completely different in that you get in, turn the key, and drive off. In fact I didn't know it had a glow plug light because it has never been on before.

The other day it was -13C and for the first time the glow plug light came on. Out of habit I tried to start the engine straight away and it would not start. I tried again and this time the starter seemed to be slower. The engine did not start, so I tried a third time. The starter turned but the lights went dimmer and dimmer.

So I gave up and put the battery on to charge.

Why do batteries seem to fail in the cold weather? Is there a specific reason? is it just that all chemistry is temperature dependant and reactions slow down in the cold?

I realise three starts pulls a lot of current but surely a good battery should have coped with that?

Due to the bad weather, we had stayed in as much as possible and when we had gone out we used the other car, so I guess the c3 had been standing undriven for over a week. Perhaps that contributed but I thought a car would survive at least a fortnight undriven, after all, they start at the airport car park after you've been away for 14 days.

I read a post on this group, where someone else was asking about their battery and there was a list of things to do and someone wrote: replace battery at the first sign of it letting you down. But someone else replied they had been meaning to do that but had not got round to it and the battery was still working two winters later. So don't know whether to get one now or not.

I went to costco and they sell a bosch silver for 58gbp. The same battery was 119 in halford$!

Just in case I have made sure the jump leads are in my boot! I think in the last ten years I have jump started one colleague at work and have been jump started myself once. So that's an average of once every five years. Is that typical? When flat batteries happen so infrequently is it worth carrying jump leads in every car? I'm wondering whether to get a second set for the other car. I say this because it was the other car that needed jump starting the once and of course, we didn't have the leads with us as they were in the other car! OTOH if we had one of everything in each car, there would be no room for the shopping in the boot!

I also wondered about these battery powered jump start packs that also have a tyre inflator. I'm not sure why they do this: do they think your tyres and battery go flat together!?

The disadvantage of jump leads is you need someone else to be there and willing to help you. If you break down in the middle of nowhere, they are no use; a battery pack would be. However, it has to be charged up regularly and I wonder whether if I actually need to use it, would I find either that it was in the boot and flat or left at home from the last time I plugged it in to charge and forgot to put it back in the car! How useful re they and how often do you have to recharge yours?

Thanks, Stephen.

Reply to
Stephen
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Think of it more as a marginal battery coping with a single start in the warm with no apparent problems. This is also the answer to your other question, more often than not.

I only get about three years out of a car battery, and the coach batteries at work only last a couple of years.

It saves carrying a separate pump and jump start set. They also have a light on them more often than not, just in case it's dark......

Install an ignition controlled power socket in the boot and leave it connected permanently. Both mine have circuitry in that stops them discharging through the charging socket.

The makers suggest a full charge every three months or so.

Reply to
John Williamson

It happens that Stephen formulated :

Batteries cannot source even close to the same amount of current they can when warm - added to which when the engine is cold, that is when then needs the maximum current. Cold winter weather is also the time when you will be using more lights and the heating fan, plus possibly want to be driving shorter distances.

It should,but only if it has had a proper charge the last time it was used - see my final comment above.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

Sounds like the thread I started. Well a little update its is working fine after a charge but I went out and bought a portable jump starter

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currently on sale and does not have a tyre inflator ;) .. not too big or heavy.. came fully charged and ready for action. At £20 worth the peace of mind and if it does happen again you have a plan as oposed to hoping for some help to jump start or waiting for the AA/RAC or such like. Aparantly it doesn't need constant chargin acording to the manual it states once every 3 months is sufficient or after use. Also it comes with a 12v lead you can plug it in as you drive it will charge.

I gave this much consideration over the last few days and decided this would be the best/safest option. Or as some have adviced get a new battery. But that said it has been battery tested and load tested and the alternator tested all passed... and its only 3 years old ... so I guess the decision is yours.

But if you do get a battery pack from maplin get it soon as they were selling like hot cakes at £20.

I hope this helps you a bit Stephen

Reply to
Matthew.Ridges
[...]

Yep, as the electricity is created by chemical reaction, battery capacity is reduced when colder.

The rated Ah is normally quoted at 20C; it will be reduced by about 20% at 0C, down to 50% at -25C.

Add to that the need to run more electrical services in cold weather, for example wipers, lights and screen heaters, and the fact that the oil is effectively thicker at low temps, meaning more power is needed to crank the engine, and it clear why batteries fail more in the winter.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Matthew.Ridges presented the following explanation :

and, have you actually tried using the new battery pack to start your car when it has a flat battery?

They have a tiny 7amp/hour gell cell, wired across an already flat battery via high resistance croc clips - compared to your cars 50 to 80 amp/hour lead acid battery which has a very good low resistance connection to the starter motor..

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

Not yet and hopefully never :) .. the reviews have been very promising tbh. Even some chapy with a 3 litre granada got his car going and even some with

2 4x4's in the family got it going with this unit. So far that all I can base my puchase on. Sounds very promising. If it doesn't work I can always call the AA.

What can I say a lot of reviews of this product being sucessful. If it works great, if not AA call coming up. I plan on changing it for a bigger battery with more Ah and CCA and that should cure it. Its about 3 years old the one in it. Hopefully that will put and end to the non sarting issue. A visit to halfords and seems I'm not alone. (free batter, alternator and load test I had today) and from a local garage, bother confirmed the battery is fine. But both said meter aren't always spot on and sometime the battery needs changing.

Since it had a full charge theres been no issues so far. If there are any at least I should hopefully be able to jump start it if not the AA should and then at some point replace the battery.

Reply to
Matthew.Ridges

It rather depends on just how flat the main battery is. Usually, they are not totally flat so the pack supplements it.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

All the ones I've seen are 17 amp.hr. I'm sure the quality of the crock clips vary - but really this is no different from jump leads.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

the really cheap ones may use a battery with push on lucar connectors. I found that most people have never read the instructions on the cheap battery packs (or jump leads) , they always say to connect and leave them alone for a few minutes to let some charge swap over, then try to start. People think they can just connect up and go, the tiny little teeth on the crocks (and the tiny leads/connectors) cannot transfer enough go juice.

Reply to
Mrcheerful

Thanks. I was a confused when the other reply said plug it into a power outlet in the boot. I was thinking the poster had a fancy car with an inverter and a mains outlet in the boot! I see now that he meant you can charge it from the cigar socket so that's a good way of keeping it topped up.

Did you only pay £20? Has the price gone up? It's now showing 29.99 on Maplin. The reviews for that model all seem quite positive and yet for five pounds more there is a model with a compressor:

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I would think it is the exact same unit but with a compressor added; the spec of the battery, CCA, etc all seem the same and yet the reviews for this one are very poor. I wonder whether people are not following the instructions properly or trying to use it on cars where the battery has been totally flat for a long time and where there is no hope of getting the battery back to life?

It seems strange that the reviews are all or nothing: either very, very good or very, very bad with no-one saying anything in between.

Reply to
Stephen

Sorry I didn't make that more clear. I meant install a fused 12 volt socket in the boot.....

Maplin suffer from both promotion mania, where they keep changing the price as their stock fluctuates, and special offer disease, where they find a batch in someone's warehouse and flog them off cheap. Unless it's one of their core lines, I've found quality to be variable, which may explain the random bad and excellent reviews. Also, people who are more or less satisfied don't bother posting reviews. It's only the extremes that make people bother, IME.

Reply to
John Williamson

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