Which car guide and petrol/diesel engines

"john hamilton" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Go and drive a couple of cars, identical apart from fuel type, and see which YOU prefer.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:25:54 +0100, john hamilton boggled us with:

In very simple terms -

diesel - lots of torque low down the rev range, no need to rev it hard to make fast progress. Quite a thin powerband in most modern TDs I've driven.

Petrol, - gutless low down, plenty of power up high in the rev range.

My personal preference is for a petrol turbo engine, and damn the economy :-)

Petrol is better for clean starts. Diesel (or any turbo) much better between

30-80.

Consider my last car, petrol of 85bhp/t. It was geared for 36mph in first, with 30mph a comfortable maximum. In second, it had about 60bhp at 30mph and maxed out at a noisy 60mph. 50-70 times were about 8, 11, 17 seconds in the three top gears.

Now diesel, also 85bhp/t. In 1st gear 24mph is possible, 20mph being a comfortable maximum. That's the bit that takes getting used to. But in 3rd gear at 30mph it has 70bhp, maximum power comes at a civilised 60mph and if required can continue to 75mph. Thus 3rd is quicker and has more top & bottom range than the old 2nd gear. It gets even better looking at the

50-70 times: about 6, 7 and 10 seconds. Quite simply, motorway inclines no longer exist and when a blocker moves out of the way I can now get air between me and the tailgater.

If you learnt to drive in 1956 then the diesel still generates usable torque at the same engine revs. Realising that changing up at 1400RPM in a VTEC isn't helpful seems to elude some people.

Here in the states diesels aren't that common for passenger cars, there are a few, but 95% are gasoline (petrol) powered. I did get a chance to drive a neighbors cars back to back, They were both VW Jettas one with a

2.8L petrol V6 and the other was a 1.9L TDI. I thought the petrol VR6 was far better. The TDI had good initial thrust, but it's power quickly diminished after about 2500 RPM. In the interest of disclosure, my daily driver has supercharged 4.6L V8 (petrol) under the hood, so my expectations may have be too optimistic. If you like to drive in sporting manner then I think petrol is the way to do. Diesels will obviously return better fuel economy.

Not at all scientific and completely subjective..........whilst in the States earlier this year I drove just over 1,500 miles in a newish (7,000 miles) Chrysler Town & Country people carrier fitted with a 3.8L V6 petrol engine and 6 speed autobox.

Although it's difficult to compare like for like (as the US roads are so different from the twisting A roads and lanes around here) it didn't seem as quick as my regular 2.0TDi Touran with DSG. Kickdown in the Chrysler resulted in a lot of V6 noise but not much acceleration, whereas the Touran is a lot more responsive on kickdown for joining a motorway or overtaking.

As for economy, even at US petrol prices - gulp.

Back to the original question. IMO any HDi Pug/Citroen will be nicer than the 1.6/1.8 petrol, the VW group TDi engines seem far more drivable than the

1.6/2.0 engines. Not driven a VW 1.4T petrol engine for comparison.

Goveners and speed or torque limiters are different in the US/Canada than the UK maybe? I had a Chrysler 4 door v6 car (mid sized in north America but considered large in the UK) that was limited to about 4500 RPM

Gasoline direct injection is fast becoming the standard on all new north American vehicles.

The T&C you drove had a decidedly outdated engine. Had you driven one with the more modern 4.0L petrol V6, the difference in power would've been noticeable. Your also comparing turbo diesels to normally aspirated petrol engines. Also since fuel is taxed a bit more sanely in the states, most cars here have considerably larger engines that those found across the pond. The average family sedan here will have well over 200 HP and have a displacement of 2.5L on the low side to about 3.5L, this gets generally gets you more torque than what you find in the average petrol-powered family car in Europe.

Duh!

Not exactly comparing like with like in the power outputs there so hardly a useful comparison when it comes to deciding relative merits of diesel over petrol (or vice versa).

Tim

Most of this is simply due to being turbod, try a petrol turbo...

"john" wrote

As I said earlier. TPs are still more of a niche with attached ved and insurance premiums. It's gradually changing and hopefully more will be offered instead of those hopeless vvts.

Preferably one with a smallish turbo for a really good kick up the rump at 60-70mph in top gear. 225bhp 2.0 TFSi Audi, 112.5bhp/L. Fiat Punto 1.4 Evo Abarth Multiair turbo 170bhp, 121bhp/L, 47mpg. 335i -

306bhp, 101.4 bhp/L, near flatline torque from nothing to 5500rpm, then it drops off as turbos are too small.

Then try a premium diesel turbo, SAAB 1.9 TTiD or TT Multijet (Lancia Delta). Another good kick up the rump in top at M-way speeds.

Then try the worlds best production SI turbo with variable phase, duration and lift valve timing. Nissan 2002 X-Trail GT - SR20VET 2.0L

280bhp Japan only (import), 140bhp/L, flatline torque from 3200rpm all the way to max power at 6800rpm.

Don't hold your breath but variable compression SI turbo may yet appear. Nissan are supposed to be production ready, just needs something FR 2+2 and smaller than a 370Z to sit in, 1.6L 225bhp

140bhp/L and it will flat line the torque curve. Problem is they all come at an increasingly premium price.

V8's even ones that technically are no better than L1.3 Ford Kent, just 4x bigger so 4x more power, are even more pricey both to buy and keep in fuel.

These magazines are often biased towards diesels as its what the authors of the articles drive.

I'd like to see Tdi's compared with Tsi's and Sdi's compared to standard aspirated Petrol engines for a fair comparison.

Most of my driving is in stop start traffic and I don't like to hang around I like to get away quick and Petrol I think is better. I couldn't car less about being able to pull away slightly quicker at mid speeds and even if I did then how does Tsi compare to Tdi? I think diesel is pretty good for fuel economy and I like the idea of the diesel engine but I can't live with the extra noise and rumbling of the engine and also knowing how much more I am polluting on a local level. All the talk of diesel being greener for the last couple of decades its actually a lot worse on a local level and the stuff it gives out is 100 times more nasty than anything petrol could hope to do leading to bronchitis, asthma, other respiratory illnesses and cancers. No thanks I'll stick with the refined.