Turns Over but Won't Start

Found a note in the manual that reads "If the hold indicator light flashes, the transmission has an electrical problem. Continuing to drive your Mazda in this condition could cause damage to your transmission." But it doesn't say it should not start... so I wonder if they are talking about the hold light blinking while the engine is running or car is driving, and that the blinking hold light might mean something else when the engine is off. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!

Hi Chris,

you have touch one one area that is not my specialty at all, otherwise I would help you.

Don't have any suspension, rollbar or top issues, do you? :-)

If you haven't already done so, it would probably be best to post this question on the moderated, (ugh, I hate that word), forum on Miata.net.

Someone there should have some suggestions for you. This group is seriously down to like 10 people or less that post regularly, so it is becoming a poor source in general for Miata technical advice.

8 years ago, almost any question asked was answered within the hour, although sometimes by Leon, which didn't really count. ;-).

Ahhh, the good old days.........

Pat

Hey Pat. Thanks for taking the time to write. Will try posting over at miata.net, but have searched there to no avail. Even the dealers (I called several) don't know what this error code is, nor does Mazda of North America (who refered me to their dealers who they rely on for techincal support?!?). It is now at a local shop, and I am keeping my fingers crossed. Wish it happened while at home so I could at leasthave tried to do some basic troubleshooting (check if there is spark, jumping the main reply as mentioned in several places, testing the relays, ignition switch, and so forth)... And yes, it does seem like Internet providers are doing their best to kill newsgroups, the first and only consistantly useful part of the Internet... but if you can't make money on it then who is going to fight for it, eh? Regards,

Pat, don't forget it's quality, not quantity (of posters) ;-) My thought would be; your timing belt may have snapped. It's a long shot but worth mentioning. I think you can have someone watch thru the oil filler cap (while cranking the starter) to see if the valve train is operating.

Good luck, there's few and far between automatics so, if it's related to that, might be a bit more elusive.

Chris

99BBB

Thanks for your input Chris. I had that thought too.. but the timming belt was done about 25k ago, so it seems unlikely. Will let you all know what the mechanic says. It would seem logical that the flashing hold light would be some sort of error code related to the transmission... like it does not 'think' it is in Park, or the pringle switch on the transmission is bad (if this model has such a thing)... to be continued.

Agreed, but as already mentioned there aren't too many automatic owners here and I'm guessing the electronics are different?

Can you get any help from Google?

I found this on Miata.net: =================================================================The HOLD light flashes a code similar to the Check Engine Light. You can cancel the codes from memory by removing the negative battery cable for at least 20 seconds and pressing the brake pedal. You might want to try doing that first.

To pull the code, connect the TAT and GND terminals in the data link connector with a jumper. Turn on the ignition, and the transmission control module flashes the Hold light with the code. The codes are 2- digit and are as follows for the 95 (I assume the 94 is the same):

06 - Vehicle speed sensor or circuit 12 - Throttle position sensor or circuit 55 - Input/turbine speed sensor or circuit 60 - Shift solenoid A or circuit 61 - Shift solenoid B or circuit 62 - Shift solenoid C or circuit 63 - Torque converter clutch control solenoid valve or circuit 62 - 3-2 control solenoid valve or circuit ============================================================ Here is where:

I Googled Hold Light Flashes on MX5, it was about the 4th hit.

Interesting... I was searching with 'flashing' not 'flashes'.... but as it turns out the light continiously blinked, no pattern to represent a code. The main relay was replaced, and that made the flashing and other lights appear normal again, but it still would not start. The coil pak registered just 1v instead of 12v and so that was then replaced. Now things seem good again. But no explanation as to what may have cause this failure. Thanks everyone for you input. I appreciate all the help on this and from the group in general. Regards,

Did your tach vary erratically before the non-startage? The first sign of poor grounds is the tach; the final sign is coil pack failure.

Thanks for your input. It operated normally right up to the failure, no unusual behavior at all. It was raining during the hour drive, so wipers and headlights were on, but that shouldn't be a problem Then sat parked for about an hour. Now knowing that it was the coil pack and main relay, my only thought was perhaps the valve cover gasket might have leaked oil on the coil pack and caused it to fail, but the mechanic said that shouldn't happen. So it is a bit of a mystery as to why it happened.

A possible sequence leading to coil pack failure-- The coil pack had a crack or other hermetic seal failure. This can occur at any place that the molded case has wires or other things that go through the molded case. Temperature extremes induce stress due to expansion and contraction differences between materials. Rapid changes just make matters worse. Water and water vapor (moisture) was present. As the engine and coil pack cooled, moisture was drawn into the coil pack. At the next start attempt, the coil pack shorted out and failed. Or as the engine compartment heated up moisture inside the coilpack heated up, and finally reached a part of the coil pack that arced over and then shorted out.

You would not believe the variety of failures that can occur when high voltage, solid state devices, moisture, temperature change, and even air pressure are involved. A simple and undetected minor production flaw can multiply and cause failure. One of the common failures is bonding failure between the molded case and internal parts, or wires that go completely through the molded case material.

Chuck, Again you impress me. What do you do for a living and in what part of the world? I'm guessing engineer but maybe that's too obvious. So, what is it?

Chris

99BBB

Chuck, That is interesting to read. Thank you for writing it. Though I only looked at the old coil pack briefly, it looked remarkably clean and intact. I say remarkable since it was over 14 years old and had 130,000 miles on it. Certainly nothing jumped out as an obvious point of failure. The issue must have been internal and probably due to what you suggest. It was indeed a cool and humid (raining) day and the engine was certainly hot after the long drive. Though the engine compartment appeared bone dry when I popped the hood to investigate, the humidity in the air was undeniable. Thanks again for your insights.

Lanny, I got the car back last Friday and drove it home. It seemed a bit happier than usual, but perhaps that was just me. Left it parked for three days. When I went to use it, it started right up, but then once I started driving the tach would drop randomly and so I kept shifting into neutral to give it gas and keep it from stalling. After about five minuets this cleared up. When stopped at a light the tach was steady but I did feel a minor roughness to the idle. Two days later when I went to use it again the same thing happened and it actually stalled as I wanted to see what it might do without me goosing the gas. Started back up again and ran ok after a few minuets. Does this fit your description of erratic tach caused by a poor ground connection someplace? Any place in particular that I should look for a bad ground connection? Many thanks.

Does this fit your description of erratic tach caused by a poor ground

I think it does Christopher. At least it does not seem inconsistent with what the bad ground would act like, in my opinion.

Chris

99BBB

Yes, if the tach doesn't seem to agree with the actual rpm of the engine; i.e., the tach droops but the engine remains steady.

Heck, clean and tighten your grounds anyway. This is regular preventive maintenance.

Search the NA forum at

for "cleaning grounds" or similar. You should find twenty-seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one...

1.6 cars have somewhat different ground arrangements from 1.8 cars, so make sure you're looking at the right instructions.

Thanks Chris and Lanny. The tach droped in sych with engine speed, but for no obvious reason - with the gas pedal steady while driving slowly, or while idel at a stop light, the engine speed (and tach) droped as if it was choking for gas. And since it passed after a few minutes on each of the two times it left me confused about it possibly being an electrical problem. I would not think of an electrical problem behaving differently after warming up. Back to the shop I go... Thanks again for all the insight and the pointers.

In the Bad Olde Days, we would be chanting--in unison--"points, plugs, condenser."

Clean the grounds anyway. An intermittent ground can affect anything from the injectors to the computer.