why do mercedes diesel last forever?

Page 5 of 6  
Saintor wrote:

You do know which cars I do own?

I certainly do not live in a bubble: I have 20+ years experience with all 4-, 5- and 6-cyl MB diesel cars and fleet car operating plus I have an extremely sharp pencil when it comes to car cost - what do you have to offer?

The competition can't: Many fleet operators here in Germany have tried in the past 20+ years to switch to other marques - and they all switched back to Mercedes diesels. They tried all kinds of marques, from Audi and Ford and Opel and Peugeot to Volvo and Volkswagen, not to mention Toyota and Mazda - no way in the long run.

I am talking about fleet cars - 60.000 to 120.000 km a year.

No question they last, but diesel powered cars _generally_ last longer - THAT simple is it!
And we all know that Americans do not care about fuel consumption so there is simply no American diesel car (and don't tell me trucks like the Ford F-250 range are passenger cars - that are trucks).
And the Ford Crown Victorias are chosen due to separate chassis and rear wheel drive as well as low buying price compared to the relatively big car and interiour size - the same with the Lincoln Towncars one category higher in the limousine business.
The best diesel engine ever made by MB was the 72 resp. 75 PS OM 601 for which it is not uncommon to last more than 1.000.000 km.
Juergen ----------------------------------------------------

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Your centre of interest is pretty much obvious, if you are asking. :o))))

More than you think.

Same thing here. And if you think that you have an extremely sharp pencil, try again. The taxi industry is much more voracious here and rates are lower than in Europe. They tried a lot of vehicles in NYC and in whole America, including M-B diesels. They ALL switched back to what you see most here - no way in the long run.
I don't doubt a minute that a Mercedes can be more durable than your average car. Not necessarely due to diesel engines, obviously.

This compares to the 60-80000 miles I mentionned above. Actually your figures are lower.

ANSWER the question. Why do you see on internet much more very high mileage cars (mostly tin cans Honda and Toyota) than diesel cars? Where are 10-15 yrs old VW diesels? Most of them did not reach real high-mileage (200000 miles), except a few ones in minority.

http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0500/enterprise.htm
"Your typical New York City taxi is a three-year-old Ford Crown Victoria with 350,000 miles on the odometer "
That is 600 000km.
The second most popular taxi car in NYC was until recently the previous 4-cyl. Honda Odyssey / Isuzu Oasis (same vehicle). 600 of them in NYC alone.

Come on.... They are obviously exceptions. Your typical '70s diesel is a 200-300 000 miles car which can also be achieved by most gas engines.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That's probably the taxi I was in, though not with the original engine.
DAS --
--
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
uuuummmmm...why do mercedes diesels last forever again?
What is this ranting that has nothing to do with the original post.
anil bharucha 1985 300D Turbo 205K miles (And yes the engine will still be banging away when other things around it has either corroded or fallen apart)

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Re: why do mercedes diesel last forever? Group: alt.auto.mercedes Date: Mon, Nov 17, 2003, 6:05pm (EST-3) From: snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (A.Bharucha) uuuummmmm...why do mercedes diesels last forever again? What is this ranting that has nothing to do with the original post. anil bharucha 1985 300D Turbo 205K miles (And yes the engine will still be banging away when other things around it has either corroded or fallen apart) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx MINES BIGGER THAN YOURS;=) 82 300SD 251,000 miles
case
the case, minus a few cans!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Few Diesel passenger cars are manufactured or imported into the United States because they fail to meet State and Federal emission requirements. Where I live, a new Diesel passenger car isn't even an option. The last Mercedes I purchased was a gasoline powered E320. If you think that gasoline engine will cost as little to maintain as a Diesel engine, I guess you will believe anything. The cost of ignition parts and fuel injection parts is far greater on the gasoline engine and these parts need replacement more often than the simple fuel system on a Diesel. But comparing NYC taxi cabs to the cars that non taxi drivers use doesn't seem relevant to me. If an engine is never turned off, it will last longer no matter how poorly it's manufactured.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Again, sounds like the taxi I was in. The cabbie told me that a relative of his drove it at night; it seemed to be running 24 h.
DAS --
--
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

States
Diesel failed in America well before these requirements. GM manufactured V6 and V8 , imported 4 cyl. diesels. VW sells only a fraction of diesel of what they used to 15 years ago. Mercedes, Audi and BMW withdrew their diesel versions. They are not popular because of cheap oil. Here in America is the kingdom of expensive SUV; most of them don't have a diesel option, except the ones who share components with full-size pick-ups and vans.

I never disputed that diesel is the way to go for high-mileage builders in Europe. As long that diesel option can be paid back within 3 years, 4 at max. Problem is that it is rarely the case here; diesel packages are very expensive on full-size pick-ups and vans.
The last Mercedes I

will
greater
the
You won't like what I'll say. Of course, diesels are cheaper to run in Europe. But not on repairs because good gas engines (not all) have no problems to get to 250000-300000 miles with no significant $$$ in ignition parts and fuel injection. And I can tell you that diesels have injectors that fail too. And expensive fuel pumps. And turbo-chargers. And problems with very cold weathers (les true now). In my relatives, there were two mediocre cars, a Ford Mustang GT 1986 that was sold after 17 years and an AMC Spirit 1979 that was scrapped in an accident in 1998. Original engines and never heard of important repairs in ignition/fuel delivery system.
Let me ask you a question. If saving money was SO important, why did you buy a Mercedes at the first place? I am with you that '70-mid '80s M-B were often outstanding in durability and would often outlast the competition of the time (Volvo were good too) by factors. In the last 15 years, a lot have changed. Like the Jaguar PDG said; "These days, you can not sell only on quality because everybody has got it." In fact, Mercedes has dropped in quality to the point of being on the 10 worst cars in reliability here (C-Class and E-Class) - Consumer Report - the America biggest organization that survey cars. I am aware that Mercedes are still very well regarded in Europe for reliability as well as Audi. Not here (under average). I bought my Audi 100Q based on good reports I saw in European publications. Actually I can tell you that the not-so-good reports from local publications revealed themselves to be more accurate. I love Mercedes designs, but low operating costs would never come to my mind as a reason to purchase them.
I have met a lot of people who were interested in VW TDi because they "wanted to save money". Problem is that these cars (now manufactured in Brasil or Mexico for America) are typically 6-7000$CAD more than their Toyota-Honda gas competition. At the rate of 40-50000km a year, this is only 800$ saved in fuel yearly. Do the math.
Fleets might be another beast, but even at that, there is no diesel in cars here. If it would interesting for these industries, they would get them, be assured.
But comparing NYC taxi cabs to the cars that

turned
No, no, no, no. Actually it was with diesels that it was recommended to let it run as possible, particularly in cold weathers. With increasing gas price, you can bet that the Ford are shut off when not needed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Since diesel engines operate at a lower rpm than most gasoline engines isn't that one reason for them to last longer? Low rpm's make any angine last longer so diesel have a big advantage over gasoline. Because of the low down torque caracter of ALL diesel engines it can runs higher gearing amd operates at a lower rpm than a gasoline engine with the same Hp.

V6
very
engine
ignition
problems
engines
were
have
in
bought
Actually
revealed
operating
cars
gas
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I've owned far more gasoline powered vehicles than diesel powered vehicles. I have yet to own a gasoline powered vehicle which would make it to 250,000 much less 300,000 miles and that was not for lack of trying.
Diesel fuel system repairs an expensive problem? Bosch deisel injectors can be rebuilt with Bosch parts for $19 per injector. You can get Bosch rebuild injectors for $35 each. Bosch diesel injector pumps seldom fail but they can be rebuilt for $500 at a Bosch authorized repair station.
Why to I drive Mercedes? Because the cost to operate the cars is less than any other car I have ever owned. Most every OEM part is available outside the dealer. Unlike Japanese car makers, Mercedes does not have an ownership interest in their parts manufacturers. But I would agree that the new Mercedes are built pretty poorly.
Cold weather problems with diesel? Not for the last 23 years or so. Mercedes uses a 80 amp glow plug system in their post 1979 cars. Mine starts right up at -30F at 10,000 feet which is just about the most severe service any engine is likely to encounter. By the way, how many miles did your relatives put on their gasoline engines? I've owned a couple of AMC cars and their engines never achieved high mileage. My last one shattered it's cast pistons at 180,000 miles.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

vehicles. I

much
Well you must do something wrong. Because there are tens of thousands of them outside. If Mercedes is not good enough, try something else. :o) I have seen them in most brands.

Mercedes
up
engine
on
Honestly, they were both around 150-180000 miles. While the Mustang was pampered, the AMC was neglected, with only one oil change a year (if it wasn't forgotten). If you are looking for 250000 miles + cars with original gas engines. It is easy and common in North America.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Oh yes I must be doing something wrong or I have an alternative explaination. Your a idiot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Well your perpetual state of denial speaks by itself and your credibility is zilch.
Writes:

250,000
explaination.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Your perpetual denial combined with your limited knowledge leave your credibility lower than anyone I have ever seen post on this newsgroup. You display remarkable arrogance for someone who is so destitute of knowledge. Perhaps you are smoking crack?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I don't smoke crack, but you have obviously inhaled too much diesel vapors. Funny part is that you did not counter with competence any argument I brought here. Your sole position is "it can't be true".
Writes:

is
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
It seems to me that the way to clinch the argument either way is to find some statistics about what percentage of diesels exceed, say, 250 000 miles and what percentage of petrol engines do the same.
A complicating factor might be that the modern, more complicated turbo-charged diesel engines might be less longer-lasting than the old ones, which tend to figure in today's records of "mine did 500 000 miles". Then we have the issue of region: USA vs western Europe, with their different diesel profiles.
I suspect this is info hard to come by but maybe somebody can think of another valid way of demonstrating which type of engine has, on average, greater longevity.
Maybe a car manufacturer has comparative stats for his own model range. That would be quite a valid comparison.
DAS --
--
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't inhale diesel exhaust fumes but you're welcome to suck on my exhaust pipe it might clear your mind. My position is that most diesels seem to last longer than most gasoline engines. My company has one of the largest fleets of both gasoline and diesel vehicles in the State of California. The maintainence schedules on all vehicles is carefully followed. They even conduct scheduled analysis of engine oil on the diesels. But when you talk to any of the shop foreman about engine life, they will all tell you the same thing. They have many diesel engines with well over 300,000 miles on them which are still in service and some of the gasoline engines will make it to 200,000 but seldom more. Most all the gasoline powered vehicles with over 200,000 miles on them have rebuilt engines in them. In addition, most of the major oil refiners market compression ignition motor oils which are rated for one million miles between motor rebuilds. Unusual for engines which you continue to claim don't last as long as gasoline engines.
You seem to have found some website which shows very high mileage gasoline engines. But I question the statistical significance of a website were vehicle owners report the life of their own engines. I don't believe it is an accurate representation of the relative service life of diesel and gasoline engines. I know you like to talk about NYC taxi fleets. Are you by chance a NYC taxi driver?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I have seen many Saab's with high mileage. I know of one 1986 900 turbo (2 litre 4 cyl) with 396k miles, original engine, turbo and manual tranny. It is quite routine to see Saab's with 250k+ mileage. Raj
Writes:

vapors.
exhaust
last
fleets of

maintainence
scheduled
shop
have
in
seldom
them
miles
don't
vehicle
accurate
engines. I

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
1) Saab engines are petrol/gasoline. No reason why such an engine couldn't last a long time.
2) The plural of anecdote is not data (with thanks to a poster who once had this in the signature).
DAS --
--
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I saw an ad for a euro car and it stated the car had a duel fuel system petrol/gas. What does this mean? I thought they were the same thing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.