Way OT: New Pontiac G8 Your Thoughts?

Professional Engineer

I work with a bunch of PE's I have an EE, but forget what it is.

I have an MBA, but forget why.

Penis Envy

;-)

Naw I think he has a gym in his basement and teaches phys ed.

Mike's a good guy here. He'd know me as Wound Up. What goes up must come down.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 02:10:26 GMT, Jason O wrote something wonderfully witty:

Master Baiters of America?

BTW -- I have an EMBA :) "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:47:36 -0500, Michael Johnson wrote something wonderfully witty:

Did you read the article that Daimler maybe looking to spin-off Chrysler? "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Yeah, I did. It looks like it will happen since the article I read said absorbing them into Mercedes wasn't a popular idea. It wouldn't surprise me that when the dust settles the "Big Three" will become the "Big Two".

Michael Johnson wrote in news:Jp6dnSVl4t2u6EnYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

And not long after that the Big Two will become the Big Zero if they don't get their acts together.

LOL! While I was typing that response to ZW I was thinking the same thing. I can't understand how Ford and GM can continually make bone head moves. I figured they would have stopped the erosion in their market share by now. I also think a great deal of their trouble comes from them ignoring the car market to sell SUVs. Now that strategy is biting them in the a$$.

Have you seen the new Toyota truck commercials? They are hitting a bullseye with them, IMO. Plus the trucks are good. Showing the large pinion gears in the rear end, big brakes, very good acceleration etc. will get crossovers from the Ford and GM crowd. If Toyota breaks into the work truck market in a big way Ford and GM will be in big trouble. It is the last area of dominance that they have left.

I don't know who is calling the shots at Toyota but damn if they don't have the American market and consumer figured out in detail. There's no reason Ford and GM can't do the same.

Michael Johnson wrote in news:hJadnT9- y90Y40nYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Japanese.

wouldn't

As usual, Michael, right on the money.

Absolutely. In fact, I'm seriously thinking about giving the Dak to my son in a year or so, as the LX is about to be put out to pasture until it becomes a restomod. Since the Dak is my daily, I'll need something to replace it. Having seen the Tundra commercials, I find myself wanting to know more about them.

IMO, that's all marketing backed up by honest product. To be fair, all that Toyota did was copy the American makers' truck marketing and put their own spin on it. It's novel because we're not used to seeing Toyotas being sold that way.

I'd really like to get dwight's take on all this marketing stuff.

Be careful. I've got comments, alright.

- scroll down to the bottom, "Thoughts."

dwight

"dwight" wrote in news:RfidnWlVHP7rv0jYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

capitalize

So does this all mean that the Tundra's commercials are good or bad?

Depends upon your gender. The Tundra is aimed, golly gee whiz, smack dab at the very cavemen that Geico likes to make fun of. Women need not apply. (Speaking of which, Geico, are there NO cavewomen?)

Some pickups are aimed at the tamer members of the male population - we don't want to be overly aggressive, such that we actually turn off those guys that are not as resolved in their manliness. Toyota doesn't care. They're going for the image to sell their trucks, and if you're a squeamish customer, they don't care.

When you look at the different brands, you can immediately see which sex is being targeted. With Ford, you only have to watch the commercial where the woman pays for a couple of clean shirts for the guy in the Mustang behind her. That's two Fords, but very different markets.

We're all so easily led...

dwight

"dwight" wrote in news:eY2dnQ-ZuePHZkjYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

It's human nature. I simply accept it with a smile. ;)

Actually, it's all very intriguing. I watch commercials now mostly to see the different tactics companies use to get me to buy what they're selling. It's very interesting watching marketing "evolve".

Since I think the Toyota Tundra commercials are good means I am a manly man and not a girlie man? :)

Now that Dwight mentions it, nearly all of Fords car commercials appear to be targeting women. That might be another component to their problem. I don't see the Toyota car commercials as being very gender specific. They also have hit a grand slam home run with their Sion brand. They are mopping up the youth market. I visit a Toyota dealership quite often and they have some serious speed parts for the Scions.

Ford started targeting the youth market with the Focus but seem to have all but given up on it. Toyota knows that today's Scion buyers are tomorrow's Toyota and Lexus buyers. Their commitment to long term marketing strategy is going to continually erode GM and Ford's market share.

Maybe GM and Ford should take a hard look at Toyota and copy their marketing strategies. They obviously aren't capable of developing their own.

Michael Johnson wrote in news:JLKdnVP5ZaqIxkvYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Exactly! BTW, have you seen the Burger King commercials? They're the epitome of what we're talking about here.

I agree. Their marketing is pretty transparent. I think that savvy women will pick up on that, too.

There's another thing that American makers don't pay enough attention to

- aftermarket. There are big bucks to be made in the "personalization" arena.

Michael, you hit the nail on the head. Key phrase = "long term marketing strategy". It works. American makers by and large have not learned that yet. Witness the frequency with which American nameplates change.

Bingo. But they need to swallow a bit of their pride first...

Scion takes two different approaches.

1) They're cheap crap. What kid, just starting out on his "career path" at a fast food joint, wouldn't want the ability to purchase a new car? Doesn't matter that there's no real substance, it's got four tires, comfy seats, and it's transportation. New transportation. That's hard to resist. Throw in some techno gadgets, and it becomes kewl, too. 2) Your personalization. When Motorola introduced the first flip phone, there was only the one model, and everyone lusted after it. Today, I've lost count of how many Razrs there are, or, if everyone you know already has a Razr, there are countless other models from which to choose. So, too, Chrysler took early hold of "niche marketing," by building limited-run models that were different from anything your neighbor had. Scion, lacking real substance, has taken to offering complete personalization of your chosen model. For around $15,000, you can deck out your Scion enough to be virtually "unique" (unique for a mass-produced vehicle, anyway).

Seems to me I can remember when the same held true for our domestic vehicles. They were called "options" - not to be confused with the "option packages" that are included on 90% of the vehicles coming off the assembly lines. You used to be able to pick and choose what went into your car BEFORE it was built. Today's options pale in comparison to what was offered 30 years ago, but today's plants are built around true mass production, true cost-cutting, and anything out of the ordinary is discouraged. Scion is building a line of cars on that premise, and they can do it cheaply.

Careful you don't fall into the same trap. To say that today's Scion buyers will somehow evolve into Toyota/Lexus owners is arrogant thinking. How about this: today's Scion buyers will be tomorrow's Scion owners. The compact disc was born in 1980, as was my son. I don't think for a moment that he'll be anything like I am now, when he's 52. A generation is now young adults with a whole different life experience than anything we had, so there's no reason to think that their purchases are driven by our own motivations. New technology advances the day when cars will drive themselves with zero emissions and automotive entertainment centers (much like I have in the family room). Driving, for the sake of driving, is going to be a lost art, as computers take more and more of the responsibility for safely delivering you to your destination. PTV's. Personal Transport Vehicles. The car recognizes you as you approach, opens the door for you, and you slide into your seat as you speak your destination. As the restraint system envelopes you, the vehicle begins its journey while you sit back to watch the latest vid.

You think Scion won't build that car twenty years from now?

The constant change in management at Ford (can't speak for GM) may be part of the problem, when marketing has to be reinvented every year. As an example, think of the endless planning meetings and millions of dollars spent in preparation for promoting the Ford Five Hundred. But wait - it's called "Taurus" now. Oops. Start over.

When the engineers develop a design, marketing should be brought in. When the clay prototype is built, marketing should be there, already planning whom to promote it to and how. When the one-off prototype is shown at the major auto shows, marketing should be on hand to talk to the visitors, gather feedback, test various marketing strategies, see which works best, while all the time working the media to create a buzz. And before the first model ever comes off the line, the marketing plan should already have been going full steam ahead, building desire for the new product.

There is no reason why a given nameplate couldn't be marketed to several audiences at the same time. The original Mustang was a chick car OR a man-beast, depending upon how you chose to deck it out. The Focus could be Ford's Scion or a chick car or an environmentalist's guilty pleasure. You can market it three ways, but you need to be consistent.

I'll always remember and never forget something White Tornado said: "Hondas are cars for people who don't like cars." It is so simple, it's brilliant. NO, not everyone actually likes to drive - not by a long shot. Many are really afraid of driving. Honda has made a name and a fortune building non-descript, non-threatening automobiles that are marketed more as your new best friend than as a "car." Imagine that first policy meeting when someone said, let's build cars for all those people out there who really don't like them... Brilliant.

(Marlboro, in the beginning, was the cigarette for housewives. How it came to be a manly smoke and exploded in popularity is Marketing 101.)

dwight