What is the general consensus on flushing a radiator using your garden hose?
First, I know that you can't dump the coolant itself, but is it okay if residual coolant is washed out on the ground while flushing (I'm in MN BTW, if anyone knows)?
Second, my mother's bf, who is kind of a blow-hard know-it-all moron, but sometimes knows what he is talking about, says there are too many minerals in household water and they will plug tiny passages in the radiator and cook solid once they get hot ruining it.
Is it a big job to flush and change all the hoses? I haven't had any trouble, but when I brought it into Precision Tune for another problem, the guy said all the hoses are OEM and should be replaced. He also suggested replacing the Dex Cool with standard coolant.
I generally fill with tapwater, run the engine until the thermostat opens, and drain to flush. Then that stuff gets taken in to the recycling center with the drained coolant.
Different places will have different mineral content... but what does he use, distilled water?
Nope. If you're flushing anyway, this is the time change the hoses....
Use a watering can of jug to pour the water in. you don't want to jam the hose into the radiator and risk damage by applying a full water jet. Actually, you can just drain the old stuff and put the new stuff in. You are replacing the coolant because the anti-corrsosion additives loose efectiveness over time and the mix level may have changed over time. The anti-freeze does not wear out, and there should not be any corrosion on the system if the car has been maintained.
No. Get a bucket and catch any of the stuff. The glycol used in the coolant is poisonous and will taste sweet to any pet or animal or small child that may get a hold of it. It is a painful death.
Only if yo plan to boil off the coolant or if you have very hard water. Tap water is generally ok if its good for drinking and you are not boiling off the stuff, if you are lazy, you can buy pre-mix thats all ready at the recommended blend.
Remenber to open up the heater valve. If you don't you leave a bit there. and switching out the heater hoses is a bitch, but a 98 should have plenty of life left. I have a 90 GMC truck with the orignal hoses and they still look fine. Do check the hose, the thermostat and the radiator cap. If they look fine and work fine, you can probably go another two years to the next change.
There will be corrosion even if the antifreeze is changed bi-annually. I generally use the hose flush method and the stuff that comes out after the radiator has been drained is always brown indicating corrosion.
I also always use a chemical flush as well. It takes a long time to drain the radiator, flush with the garden hose, refill with distilled water, put in the additive, run to temp and then 15 minutes longer, then do it all over again filling the last time with distilled water, then again draining to fill with the antifreeze.
I do this every two years and have not had any radiator or cooling system problems in any of my 5 vehicles that IU maintain for my family.
Do NOT replace Dexcool with Silicon based coolants especially in a=20 Saturn. Your engine is aluminum, your heater core is aluminum, and your=20 radiator is aluminum. Conventional coolant will EAT ALUMINUM UP. I'm=20 sure he would like you to return for coolant changes every 2 years=20 and/or heater core replacements...
Hoses are up to you. If they are hard to get to then you should replace=20 them so you arent stuck on the side of the road unable to replace them.=20 Usually only the lower hose is hard to get to and thats what I usually=20 replace in those cases.
I have well water here but what I do is run the water through those=20 carbon filtered drinking water containers. I wash out used washer fluid=20 bottles, mark the half way point between the bottom and before the taper=20 at the top of the bottle. I then fill half with water then half with dex=20 and I get my very own premix.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is GM's procedures for coolant replacement and flushing for a 98 S- series.
Object Number: 872298 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 1. Check the engine coolant level in the coolant surge tank. The coolant level should be between the FULL COLD Min. and FULL=20 COLD Max. line depending on the engine temperature. If low, check for=20 leaks and add coolant up to the FULL COLD range.
Notice
The engine's cooling system thermostat and water pump will not=20 function correctly if oil is found in the cooling system. The cooling=20 system must be flushed and the water pump and the thermostat's cartridge=20 replaced. 2. Check the engine coolant quality. There should not be any rust deposits or scales in the coolant=20 surge tank or cap and the coolant should be free from oil. If=20 excessively dirty, flush the system and replace the cap as necessary. Object Number: 872047 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image.
Caution
Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool,=20 then slowly remove the cap. 3. Replace the engine coolant: 1. Remove the coolant surge tank cap.
Important
A two gallon container will be required to hold the coolant. 2. Drain the coolant from the radiator and engine drain plug=20 located at the right front of the engine block. 3. Close the radiator drain plug and install the cylinder block=20 drain plug. Tighten
Tighten the cylinder block coolant drain plug to 35 N=B7m (26= =20 lb ft).
Important
The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant. 4. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with a 50/50 solution=20 of Dex-Cool=3D3F antifreeze and clean water. 5. Capacity (with heater): 6.75 L (7 qt). Start the engine and=20 check for leaks. 6. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then=20 add additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD=20 range. 7. Install the cap.
When the engine's cooling system becomes contaminated, it should be=20 flushed thoroughly to remove the contaminants before the engine is=20 seriously damaged. One source of contamination that is damaging to the=20 engine if not corrected immediately is a cracked oil gallery. With a=20 cracked oil gallery, oil will be forced into the cooling system while=20 the engine is operating, and when it is stopped, coolant will leak into=20 the lubricating system. If mixed with oil in the crankcase, this=20 antifreeze forms a varnish which quickly immobilizes moving engine=20 parts.
To remove such contaminants from the engine, both the cooling system and=20 the lubrication system must be thoroughly flushed after the engine is=20 repaired.
Caution
Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool, then=20 slowly remove the cap.
If the engine has had a failure resulting in the contamination of the=20 cooling system with lubricating oil, or a substance other than a=20 recommended antifreeze has been added, the following procedure is=20 recommended.
Object Number: 872047 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 1. The cooling system holds approximately two gallons of coolant. 2. Prepare a mixture of Calgon=AE automatic dishwasher detergent or=20 equivalent, and water at the ratio of two ounces (dry measure) to 3.8=20 liters (1 gal) of water. The vehicle has two drains: one located in the=20 lower right hand side of the radiator and the other one located directly=20 under the thermostat housing. Remove the coolant surge tank cap and drain the cooling system. Object Number: 871724 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 3. Remove the engine thermostat to permit the Calgon=AE or equivalent=20 and water mixture to circulate through the engine and the radiator.
Object Number: 872300 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 4. Fill the cooling system with the Calgon=AE or equivalent solution. 5. Run the engine for 5 minutes. 6. Drain the cooling system. 7. Repeat Steps 4-6. 8. Fill the cooling system with clean water. 9. Let the engine run 5 minutes.
Notice
If the cooling system has been contaminated by oil, replacement of=20 the thermostat and water pump is required. 10. Drain the cooling system completely. 11. Install the new engine thermostat. Refer to Thermostat Replacement=20 . 12. Install the new water pump. Refer to Water Pump Replacement . 13. Install the cylinder block drain plug. Tighten
Tighten the cylinder block drain plugs to 35 N=B7m (26 lb ft). 14. Close the radiator drain plug.
Object Number: 872298 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image.
Important
The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant. 15. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with coolant. Use a 50/50=20 solution of DEX-COOL=3D3F antifreeze and clean water. 16. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then add=20 additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD=20 range. 17. Install the coolant surge tank cap and check for leaks.
That's great information thanks. Not thinking I topped off my 2.2 LW with some green antifreeze. About a cup. My brother said I should have it flushed. I'm guessing that the procedures for the 2.2 and the 1.9 are similar? Maybe I'll try it myself? Thanks again Sanppa
Do NOT replace Dexcool with Silicon based coolants especially in a Saturn. Your engine is aluminum, your heater core is aluminum, and your radiator is aluminum. Conventional coolant will EAT ALUMINUM UP. I'm sure he would like you to return for coolant changes every 2 years and/or heater core replacements...
Hoses are up to you. If they are hard to get to then you should replace them so you arent stuck on the side of the road unable to replace them. Usually only the lower hose is hard to get to and thats what I usually replace in those cases.
I have well water here but what I do is run the water through those carbon filtered drinking water containers. I wash out used washer fluid bottles, mark the half way point between the bottom and before the taper at the top of the bottle. I then fill half with water then half with dex and I get my very own premix.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is GM's procedures for coolant replacement and flushing for a 98 S- series.
Object Number: 872298 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 1. Check the engine coolant level in the coolant surge tank. The coolant level should be between the FULL COLD Min. and FULL COLD Max. line depending on the engine temperature. If low, check for leaks and add coolant up to the FULL COLD range.
Notice
The engine's cooling system thermostat and water pump will not function correctly if oil is found in the cooling system. The cooling system must be flushed and the water pump and the thermostat's cartridge replaced. 2. Check the engine coolant quality. There should not be any rust deposits or scales in the coolant surge tank or cap and the coolant should be free from oil. If excessively dirty, flush the system and replace the cap as necessary. Object Number: 872047 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image.
Caution
Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool, then slowly remove the cap. 3. Replace the engine coolant: 1. Remove the coolant surge tank cap.
Important
A two gallon container will be required to hold the coolant. 2. Drain the coolant from the radiator and engine drain plug located at the right front of the engine block. 3. Close the radiator drain plug and install the cylinder block drain plug. Tighten
Tighten the cylinder block coolant drain plug to 35 N·m (26 lb ft).
Important
The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant. 4. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with a 50/50 solution of Dex-Cool=3F antifreeze and clean water. 5. Capacity (with heater): 6.75 L (7 qt). Start the engine and check for leaks. 6. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then add additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD range. 7. Install the cap.
When the engine's cooling system becomes contaminated, it should be flushed thoroughly to remove the contaminants before the engine is seriously damaged. One source of contamination that is damaging to the engine if not corrected immediately is a cracked oil gallery. With a cracked oil gallery, oil will be forced into the cooling system while the engine is operating, and when it is stopped, coolant will leak into the lubricating system. If mixed with oil in the crankcase, this antifreeze forms a varnish which quickly immobilizes moving engine parts.
To remove such contaminants from the engine, both the cooling system and the lubrication system must be thoroughly flushed after the engine is repaired.
Caution
Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool, then slowly remove the cap.
If the engine has had a failure resulting in the contamination of the cooling system with lubricating oil, or a substance other than a recommended antifreeze has been added, the following procedure is recommended.
Object Number: 872047 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 1. The cooling system holds approximately two gallons of coolant. 2. Prepare a mixture of Calgon® automatic dishwasher detergent or equivalent, and water at the ratio of two ounces (dry measure) to 3.8 liters (1 gal) of water. The vehicle has two drains: one located in the lower right hand side of the radiator and the other one located directly under the thermostat housing. Remove the coolant surge tank cap and drain the cooling system. Object Number: 871724 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 3. Remove the engine thermostat to permit the Calgon® or equivalent and water mixture to circulate through the engine and the radiator.
Object Number: 872300 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 4. Fill the cooling system with the Calgon® or equivalent solution. 5. Run the engine for 5 minutes. 6. Drain the cooling system. 7. Repeat Steps 4-6. 8. Fill the cooling system with clean water. 9. Let the engine run 5 minutes.
Notice
If the cooling system has been contaminated by oil, replacement of the thermostat and water pump is required. 10. Drain the cooling system completely. 11. Install the new engine thermostat. Refer to Thermostat Replacement . 12. Install the new water pump. Refer to Water Pump Replacement . 13. Install the cylinder block drain plug. Tighten
Tighten the cylinder block drain plugs to 35 N·m (26 lb ft). 14. Close the radiator drain plug.
Object Number: 872298 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image.
Important
The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant. 15. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with coolant. Use a 50/50 solution of DEX-COOL=3F antifreeze and clean water. 16. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then add additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD range. 17. Install the coolant surge tank cap and check for leaks.
The Ecotec is a different breed of engine. I havent had to do any=20 cooling system work on one thus far but from looking at my eSI disk it=20 looks more difficult to access the thermostate and water pump if one=20 needed to. Probably this engines one slight draw back in design...
Anytime you mix non-extended life coolant with dexcool you cut the life=20 of the coolant down to 2 years or less. The corrosion inhibitors of each=20 coolant attack eachother.
The engine coolant level can be inspected at the engine coolant surge=20 tank. The coolant level should be inspected when the system is cool and=20 not under pressure. The coolant level should be at the cold line, also=20 called the surge tank seam, on the coolant tank. If the coolant level is=20 low, inspect the system for leaks, and then slowly open the coolant=20 surge tank cap. Add the coolant until the level reaches the cold line. Coolant Quality
Inspect the quality of coolant. There should not be any rust deposits,=20 scale, or oil in the surge tank or on the coolant cap. If the coolant is=20 excessively dirty, the cooling system should be flushed and the cap=20 replaced. Draining Procedure
Object Number: 894527 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image.
Caution
To avoid the danger of being burned, do not remove the cap while=20 the engine, radiator, and surge tank are still hot. Scalding fluid and=20 steam can be blown out under pressure. 1. Remove the surge tank cap. 2. Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in=20 General Information.
Object Number: 894225 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 3. Remove the lower cradle splash shield fasteners. 4. Remove the lower cradle splash shield (2).
Object Number: 894529 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image.
Important
Failure to use a drain hose will result in uncontrolled coolant=20 flow direction. 5. Slide a pliable piece of hose with an inside diameter of 3/8 in=20 over the radiator drain tube. 6. Route the hose rearward and down to a 7.6 L (8 qt) coolant=20 container. 7. Use a flat bladed tool or a pliers to open the radiator drain=20 valve 1-2 turns only. 8. Approximately 3.5 L (4 qt) of coolant can be drained from the=20 radiator. Additional coolant will remain in some cooling system=20 components. Inspect the coolant. 9. Follow the appropriate procedure based on the condition of the=20 coolant. * Normal in appearance -- follow the filling procedure below. * Discolored -- follow the flush procedure. Refer to Coolant=20 System Flushing .
Filling Procedure Tools Required
J 26568 Coolant and Battery Tester
Notice
The procedure below must be followed. Improper coolant level could=20 result in a low or high coolant level condition, causing engine damage. 1. Close the coolant drain valve and remove the drain hose.
Object Number: 894225 Size: SH Click here for detailed picture of above image. 2. Install the lower cradle splash shield (2). Notice
Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices. 3. Install the fasteners to the lower cradle splash shield. Tighten
Tighten the fasteners to 5 N=B7m (44 lb in). 4. Slowly fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of GM=20 Goodwrench DEX-COOL=AE or HAVOLINE=AE DEX-COOL=AE and clean, drinkable wate= r.=20 Refer to Capacities - Approximate Fluid in General Information. 5. The coolant level should be at the cold line on the coolant tank.=20 Install the surge tank cap. 6. Start the engine. 7. Run the engine at 2,000-2,500 RPM until the engine reaches normal=20 operating temperature. 8. Allow the engine to idle for 3 minutes. 9. Shut the engine off. 10. Allow the engine to cool. 11. Top off the coolant as necessary. 12. Using J 26568 , inspect the concentration of the engine coolant. 13. Rinse away any excess coolant from the engine and the engine=20 compartment.
Store used coolant in the proper manner, such as in a used engine=20 coolant holding tank. Do not pour used coolant down a drain. Ethylene=20 glycol antifreeze is a very toxic chemical. Do not dispose of coolant=20 into the sewer system or ground water. This is illegal and ecologically=20 unsound.
Various methods and equipment can be used to flush the cooling system.=20 If special equipment is used, such as a back flusher, follow the=20 manufacturer's instruction. However, always remove the thermostat before=20 back flushing the system.
Block the drive wheels. 2. Place the transmission in PARK (P) or NEUTRAL (N). 3. Engage the park brake. 4. Run the engine until the thermostat opens. 5. Stop the engine. 6. Follow the drain and fill procedure using only clean drinkable=20 water. Repeat the procedure if necessary, until the fluid is nearly=20 colorless. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling System . 7. Fill the coolant reservoir to the FULL COLD mark. 8. Fill the cooling system. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling=20 System .
blah balh, Thanks again for your response. I'm glad you mentioned not to use a chemical flush. I'm looking at a bottle of Prestone Flush I picked up with the DEX Antifreeze. Do you think I should use the Calgon dishwasher flush you mention earlier in the thread? If you find the position of a drain plug on the 4 cylinder 2.2 block, please let me know. Once again. I appreciate your suggestions. Snappa
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