Timing chain failure?

Sounds like you have guessed and the cause correctly already... Can't comment on the work involved though... Much success to you!

Does sound like the chain broke. Pull the valve cover and see if the cam is turning. The rattling noise is likely pistons hitting valves.

Thus spake BANDIT2941 on 1/18/2004 7:41 AM:

Well, I yanked the valve cover today...borken timing chain. The only work involved in this is towing it to a junkyard and buying a new car for her. With 162,000 on it, I really don't think it's worth slapping a new engine in it.

I wasn't aware that back in '92 cars were made with interference engines using chains. I've got a '91 Accord which is also an interference engine, but it uses a belt. Seeing as my belt gets replaced every

90,000 miles, and apparently the chain is supposed to be as well, is there really any advantage to a chain?

-moitz-

...I've read that sometimes a worn chain is noisy and a tech will hear it when it's in for service (oil change, etc).

I've heard different lifespans for belts and Honda's - I like belts for their quietness, especially at higher rpm's. I guess in theory if you kept a car for 100k the chain system would still be original and the belt system would have cost you a replacement at 90k. The chain would be cheaper in that example.

Congrats to your wife - a new car is a great way to start the new year! (smile)

There's not really any scheduled replacement interval for a chain. 90,000 seems early to have timing chain problems.. plus it seems like they usually make noise for a while before they break (which it sounds like it did here, at least for some length of time..)

...90k was the replacement interval for the belt in a Honda the original poster was referring to. He had 162k on the Saturn.

If you want more reliability with performance, use those rubber belts to keep your pants up and stick with a timing chain. But then again, we're talking Satrun, here. Ain't much performace (stock) with those lawnmower engines...

Thus spake Jonnie Santos on 1/18/2004 5:38 PM:

Only 90,000ish on the chain though. Previous owner smoke a chain at

72,000 so it had a new engine in it when we got it (compliments of her uncle who builds top-fuel engines for a living).

Ah well. We needed a vehicle capable of towing a boat by spring anyhow, so this actually works out well-ish. Timing wasn't quite what I had hoped for, but hey...

-moitz-

Thus spake Moitz on 1/18/2004 11:44 PM:

Hate replying to my own posts but a quick recount of miles leads me to about a ~120,000 figure...uncle used a boneyard engine out of a totaled car with ~20,000mi. So I guess I was pushing my luck.

-moitz-

I've seen chains go much farther than that. When I rebuilt my motor at 157k my chain wasn't really all that stretched out(I replaced it because it was cheap and compared the old one to the new one).

My SL2's chain was OK at 217,111 miles, but the exhaust sprocket was losing the tips of some of its teeth. And both cam sprockets where egging-out. And this was with Mobil 1. I think I'd rather change the belt every 60,000 to

80,000 miles than pulling out the engine.

...there used to be some posts about chains breaking more frequently than thought by a guy who saw a lot of Saturn's in his business. And then other posts that said low engine oil was terminal for the chain and guides - since some S series have a pretty good appetite for oil, it would be pretty easy to let the oil level to get too low between servicing...

Any thoughts about the replacement vehicle? Do you like GM and what about the Colorado pickup?

Thus spake Jonnie Santos on 1/19/2004 9:37 PM:

Yeah, it did have an appetite for oil, but we were always good about making sure it was never below the low mark (checked at every fill-up). I tried to use Castrol GTX High-Mileage when possible, Valvoline when not. 3000-5000 mile change intervals, always did filters. So not spectacular maintenance but probably quite a bit better than most people.

Well, to be honest, I'm a Honda man when it comes to cars (her car was the gift that kept on giving me alternator repairs to do--last one was two weeks ago). I've always said I'd buy domestic trucks though and I'm sticking to that. Unfortunately, with starting college again, payments are pretty much out of the question. So we're going with a 1994 mechanic-owned Jeep Cherokee a friend of ours is selling. Word on the street (and judging from my brother's 289,000 mile 1989 Cherokee) they last quite a long time.

As far as the Colorado goes, I don't know...I haven't been a fan of GM's style department lately (not that Honda's been much better with their last round of redesigns *COUGH*Accord*COUGH*). Based purely on looks, I'd go for a Dakota over the Colorado. Based on reliability reputation though...Colorado all the way. I'm not so rich I can afford 3 or 4 transmissions over the life of a vehicle. :)

-moitz-

...amazing what Honda can do. They're showing a pickup on their website - believe it's concept only.

Congrats about college - I think it's one of the best things you can do for yourself regardless of what you chose to do for a living. I'm still plan on winning the lotto here in California... (grin)

No specified interval for a chain replacement, but alas that does not mean the chain never needs to be replaced. 6th Planet, formerly Saturn Services, was recommending something like 75K miles, based on the large number of destroyed Saturn engines he saw due to timing chain failures.

The advantage of a belt is that it's much less expensive to replace, and it isn't as dependent on other components (i.e. tensioners, guides, oil level), besides being quieter), which is why Saturns have timing chain problems.

Read:

obviously they are referring to vehicles with non-interference engineswhen they say that you don't replace a chain until it breaks.

Yeah, but in many cases it also drives the water pump. I'd much rather be dependent on guides and stuff then the water pump. If the pump locks up there goes the belt!

Oh, and if the belt doesn't have some type of tensioner, how does it stay tight?

This is true. They recommend water pump replacement when the belt is replaced. On Hondas the timing belt interval is now 105K miles, time for a new water pump anyway, as long as you're doing preventative maintenance.

The tensioners are much simpler. Just a spring loader roller. Not like Saturn, where oil pressure is used to ratchet up the tension, and where a gummed up timing chain tensioner bore resulted in a loose chain.