2014 Outback Availability ?

I don't know which writeup you saw, but all the ones I've seen have said the first cars will be out late next month.

No announcement yet, but I've been hovering over this website:

for news. That site is run by a Subie dealer in Washington and has a wealth of information. For example, here's last year's Outback press release:

So if the same schedule holds (I'm guessing yes), we should know more about the 2014 Outback in late March/early April.

still a few years off ?

Dunno about a redesign, but if you're interested in new features, I'm sure that Joe (the owner of Cars101.com) will describe them, and maybe even do a comparison chart for the Outback like he recently did for the Forester:

Patty

"Active AWD, mostly front wheel drive, electronically controlled front/ back power split"

thanks Patty. Folks, kiss goodbye to any hopes of rear axle bias and even symmetrical power distrubution. FHI now has joined the "me too" front wheel bias crowd it was in the 90s.

I suspect some idiots in brz tilted the fragile balance

Is that so?

The 50/50 front/rear split has been a feature of manual transmission Subarus- not sure about the turbo Forester XT. which comes in auto only.

I suspect the pressure to reduce gasoline consumption would be behind any shift to front bias.

The way I see it, Subaru with its not too efficient boxer engines is in serious trouble, and they know it.

That's why they're looking for anything that could help. Likely they'll have difficulty meeting stringent future CAFE requirements. Boxers are thirsty by nature, and Subarus reliance on AWD is an additional detriment. A front wheel drive only car is an option, but still not competitive with other non-awd cars, in terms of mpg.

I think these new norms are purposefully pushed to manufacturers to induce them to produce and sell hybrids.

I'll risk a dire prediction for Subrau: possibility of bankruptcy (!) in a few years if they don't come up with solid hybrids.

The newest and most efficient engines (FB designation, 2.0L, 2.5L) are well known oil guzzlers, ...guzzling synthetic oil on top of it (!). This suggests to me that Subaru has stretched it, and done all that it possibly could to the boxer engine in terms of improving its mpg.

Future improvements will have to come from elsewhere, hybrid, dropping Awd altogether, shifting power distribution electronically to front, etc.

This situation, marketwise doesn' not bode well for Subaru.

They are a small market share company. Suzuki is already leaving US market. Mitsubishi with its 0.4% share might ultimately exit too. Subaru is stuck with a gas thirsty engine, and AWD has been such a prominent feature of the brand,

Now the FB engines are oil guzzlers!

I don't see how they are going to make it past 5 years, without some major major changes, requiring big investment in electric, the small company probably cannot afford.

Not necessarily.

Basia

if you check the comparo tables Patty provided you'd see no manual option of XT.

turbo forresters were probably something like 4% of forrester sales. guess how much of that went to manuals given that manuals in the state are under 1% of the whole market (could be well more than that in kaulifornia, but who cares about regional fluctuation here)

ok, then we'd see a 325xi competitor in wrx with a cvt pretty soon I'm sure :^)

choosing beteen CR-V and x-mode forrester I'd think I'd go for a cr-v

(if subaru MT6 sucks as much as MT5 did and cvt is th way to go that is).

Interestingly, Subarus up here in Canada are almost recession proof, while everyone from Toyota to GM were bleeding during the Great Recession, Subarus were unaffected. I know, I was shopping for a new one for the past 3 years, and could not find one with any mark-downs or anything. Had to go recently used to get it affordable.

Subarus are really a very niche player, and they always have been. There's very little reason to own one in southern California, for example, but lots of reason to own one in Minnesota.

There is a myth that AWD adds to fuel consumption, and that somehow being able to turn off the AWD when not needed will improve it. You still have to carry the full weight of the AWD system no matter what, whether it is working or not. Might as well have it working full-time, so the traction is always available

Certainly not in warm climes. But it never really has in those climes.

And for good reason, it's the AWD that's keeping Subaru in the game, whereas Suzuki and Mitsubishi might be exiting it.

I think the CVT helps quite a bit here. Hybrids are a bit of a false promise. Hybrids only work in the city, but even there, they don't offer any advantages until you've done more than 20km of city driving continuously. In the meantime, they are a detriment.

Yousuf Khan

I agree with everything that you said, but if oil prices go up significantly, in the near future, boxer engines, AWD, and particularly boxer engines with AWD may become a thing of the past. Subaus co-operation with Toyota suggests they are well aware that what worked beautifully in an era of cheap gas (80s, and 90s), might be no more, ...and hybrid technology might be the only way. Unless we can have some more successful oil wars or something.

Here in US they didn't offer any cash incentives, (customary occasional $1000 rebates etc.), for several years now. Not on Imprezzas, not on Foresters, not Legacy, cant remember Outbacks. There was a discount offered on the Tribeca.

Surely a recession proof brand, ...but not extinction proof, and that is what is going to haunt Subaru without hybrid technology, if prices of oil go up- a very likely scenario.

I even think of the BRZ as an exercise in "doing it" light, and without AWD. Subaru seems to hear the tune of the music, so to speak, and may very well avoid serious trouble.

Basia

Well, Toyota ended up using the Subaru engine. Toyota must not find it so inefficient, as you do.

Couldn't find one on Tribeca up here either.

I hope they don't go the hybrid route, it's just too gimmicky. There might be some benefit in bringing out a diesel engine though. I think they have those in Asia already.

A sports car is hardly an example of going economical. The BRZ is more of a solution for Toyota, than it is for Subaru. Subaru gets to ride along, basically. While it introduced the BRZ, it also introduced the XV CUV, not quite an abandonment of the AWD paradigm.

Subaru is actually more of a mid-level luxury brand these days, that's why its average prices are going up. Subaru knows AWD is its selling feature, and it's why it's still surviving while Suzuki and Mitsubishi might be vanishing. Subaru has also been a separate brand long before either of those two came into the American market too, and it looks like it'll outlast them. Subaru has brand identity, those other two don't.

Yousuf Khan

how much of that is left in the front-wheel-drive-most-of-the-time

2014 fartsters with automatic?

obama is doing everything he can with CAFE to blur the distinctions

21st century democtrats. sheesh

The previous generation Subaru automatics were like this already, at least up until 2004, as far as I can tell. Those were the automatics with the clutch-pack central diff that locked up when slippage was discovered. So they're just bringing back that older setup as far as I can tell.

Yousuf Khan

Older automatics used to send some (10%?) torque to the back axle under normal conditions, if I am not mistaken.

I guess Subaru decided that more hardcore crowd that needs awd that won't overheat during extended off-road stints would get a manual.

It's sad that you can not get a manual turbo forrester in the states but I guess the market voted in the previous years and there is no point for subaru to produce the drivetrain/transmission/engine combo that is not popular over there. amen