the more things change ...

Trick question?

There is a Mobil station 2 blocks from me, they have a full service island and 4 service bays. The owner bought 2 fully loaded engine analyzers from me some years ago.

Such as? The last vehicle I worked on that had a external electric fuel pump was a Subaru XT (or whatever their little sports car was) IIRC, it was an 80s model year.

You don't have to pay $350 labor to change a fuel pump. I can change the fuel pump in most Asian brands in less than a half hour, same for any Chrysler LH car, some GMs allow access thru the trunk also.

Nope. Evidence back in the 80s when any one particular car model could be had with either EFI or carburetor, the carb versions still used a mechanical engine mounted fuel pump. But HLS wasn't commenting on in tank fuel pumps, he was commenting on the fact that many are a one unit integrated module that includes the pump, fuel level sensor, vapor pressure sensor and in some cases the fuel pressure regulator and fuel filter.

More or less, yes. if you're good enough, things are fine, if you screw up or screw over, market forces will put you out of business.

That guy should have begged off of the job if he didn't know what he was doing. But as I mentioned over in the Yoda group, they don't know what they don't know. I turn down big dollar repairs on Audi's all the time because I feel that without factory training, I'd be committing malpractice even if the repairs did go right.

Thank you, much appreciated.

I've had two slow weeks this entire year, no problem because it gives me time to organize the shop and catch up on paper work. Right now I'm swamped again.

The older units were -older-, they are/were pre OBD II. There may be exceptions where a modular style predates 1996 emissions regs but I can't think of many.

I performed an R&R on a mid 90's Regal fuel pump for a friend this summer. She had quotes of over $600. The only item actually in need of replacement was the pump itself (new Delphi was $77) as the pickup assembly incl. the pulsator, level sensor, wiring ... were all just fine. Total charge was $155 saving her in the vicinity of $500.

aarcuda69062 wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@nothing.attdns.com:

No, they're *very* hard to come by around here. I can't think of a full service station in Ottawa that has service bays anymore.

So that's a no then. What I figured would be the case. If people get gas at the same plae they get their repairs done, they're more tempted to raise objections about poor service I would think. In addition, there being less places to service cars - possibly due to ECU's etc, there would be less people to train and less work outside of what is done at dealerships. My father told me once about mechanical fuel injection being on planes long before it was ever on a car. One never needs electronics for a car design to work IMHO.

Ashton Crusher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The number up here in Ontario Canada is officially 1.2%.

Last year available: 2005

Also, that number only represents the number of vehicles which, upon inspection after the collision, were found to have a mechanical defect. The statistic does NOT say how many of those mechanical defects were actually directly linked to the collision.

Obviously, if you were to count ONLY those collisions where a mechanical defect was directly implicated as a significant contributing factor, the percentage would be much lower than 1.2%.

As a comparison, I have a paper version of 1985's statistics. That issue shows the percentage of mechanical defects to be 2.2%. There has, therefore, been about a 45% improvement in the defect rate from 1985 to 2005.

Significantly, Ontario has never had a safety inspection program. (We do have one that must be performed when the vehicle's ownership changes hands.)

It's an 'I don't know.' I don;t know the exact date that GM started their training centers or when United Delco took up residence in them. The building architecture of the ones I've been to suggest that they were built in the mid 50s.

Many places that did have gas and service bays simply gave up the gas sales due to environmental issues. Others were railroaded out due to fu-fu zoning regulations. Soda and chips are a whole lot more profitable than repair work, so many just boarded over the overhead doors, remodeled the inside and went into the groceries for suckers business.

The population to train has increased steadily over the years. Cars last longer but due to complexity, more training is needed, testing and diagnosis take longer so more trained bodies are needed. Repairs take longer so again, more trained bodies are needed.

Inside dealerships versus outside dealerships is more an issue of whether the car is under warranty and customers perceptions WRT price and value. The repair market has and will continue to expand, there will be growth and demand for skilled technical labor.

True.

You're quite wrong. It would be impossible to meet current emissions and fuel economy regulations without electronics. Before electronic fuel injection, right about this time of year we'd be stacking the tow-in flooded cars in the service lot like cord wood. That's been replaced by people who now want their ABS and traction control fixed because of the slick roads.