Premiere Toyota service

Well, I got the Camry's oil changed today after only

2,800 miles. Had the Toyota dealership dump out the Mobil 1 and replace it with Pennzoil Platinum.

I also had'em replace the almost 2-year-old cabin filter, which was dirty (cost: $30). The engine air filter was also replaced ($27--hey, it's only $17 at ToyotaPartsAndService.com).

I stood near the tech to watch the process. When he pulled out the engine air filter, I peered into the car's air housing, and noticed a couple dirty somethings in there, but he didn't clean the housing out. The Toyota tech just pulled out the old, dirty engine air filter and replaced it with a new one.

I guess I can expect a 30 percent increase in engine wear for a little while, according to Ed's research paper reference about improper air filter replacement procedures :-(

The tires were rotated, but no special attention seemed to be payed to torque measurement. The tech just used an automatic ratchet, but didn't seem to carefully measure the level of torque applied to the nuts and bolts. Oh well, at least he did tighten each wheel's set in a star pattern.

I may do this stuff myself. I'm not really delighted that whatever I saw in the air filter housing musta got sucked into the engine on start-up. Plus no attention was payed to exact torque.

Would you guys buy a GM Goodwrench 2-ton hydraulic floor jack (5 inches to 13 inches) or an A.C. Delco 2-ton hydraulic floor jack (5 inches to 14 inches)? One lifts a maximum of 13 inches, I guess, and the other 14 inches. I can't see how one inch could make much of a difference, so I suppose the proper question to ask is which do you think will be a better quality floor jack: GM Goodwrench or A.C. Delco?

Reply to
Built_Well
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They may be made by the same company. At one time GM owned Delco, and obviously GM does not make jacks themselves, they source them from a supplier.

OTOH, Delco probably gets them from China anyway.

Reply to
Mark A

I think that the bottom of the air filter housing is the dirty side of the filter; that is, the air comes in the bottom and moves up through the filter. The bottom of the air filter housing acts as a trap for large objects and debris and reduces the likelihood that water can enter the engine. If air flowed from the top down, then nothing should be able to get into the bottom of the housing.

Hopefully, the technician did not use an automatic ratchet because they generally do not generate sufficient torque for lug nuts. The tech was probably using an impact gun with a torque limiting socket like this:

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the untrained eye, it looks like the torque is not being measured.

Changing an engine air filter is not rocket science, but you do need to know which side of the filter is dirty and which side is filtered.

Rotating tires is also not rocket science. Invest in a good set of jack stands, a good jack, and a torque wrench.

I would buy a Snap-On or Craftsman jack. You can get parts.

Reply to
Ray O

========

Ray, I was able to take a look at the old filter tonight since I had brought it home. You're right. One side is labeled up and it is much cleaner than the bottom side, so air must travel upwards.

However, I think the 2 or 3 pieces of dirt resting at the bottom of the filter housing should still have been cleaned so they wouldn't dirty the new filter. They were large enough that I could see them from a couple feet away :-)

You're also probably right that the tech used an impact gun with a torque-limiting socket when he tightened each wheel's nuts.

I guess the tech did a better job than I originally thought. And what am I complaining about? They put a delicious mint and thank you card on my dashboard when done.

The mint alone was worth the extra $10 I paid for the engine air filter ;-)

ToyotaPartsAndService.COM says the MSRP is $17, not $27. Ouch. Still, I can tell that the OEM filter is of better quality than the STP filter I saw at AutoZone, so no complaints here.

Comparing this receipt to older receipts, it appears the $30 labor charge must have been itemized as $10 for the oil change, $10 for tire rotation, and $10 for air and cabin filter change. Seems reasonable.

I appreciated the tech letting me watch, so I tipped him $5 at the end.

Is a torque wrench recommended for tightening the engine air filter housing's two screws, or can you use any old hand wrench and just tighten securely? Thanks for pointing out the air travels upwards.

Reply to
Built_Well

I don't want to sound picky, but my dealer's maintenance service is also deficient when it comes to the tire rotation procedure. Since the Camry comes with a full-size spare, the manual says to include the spare in the rotation. But my dealer's standard operating procedure is to exclude the spare from the rotation. I actually don't mind this because it keeps my trunk cleaner since it never sees a dirty tire. But technically, the dealer's S.O.P. should include the spare unless the customer requests otherwise.

Still, I'm sure my Toyota dealer's service is exceptional and beats most independent garages. They know your Toyota better than the other garages.

Reply to
Built_Well

So you're happy paying ten bucks for a piece of candy?

Mechanics generally (always?) dislike having the customer peering over his shoulder as they work, just as you probably dislike having someone 'supervise' your work, so it was nice of you to give him a small gratuity.

I'm a little surprised that the dealership allowed you in the work area. Most shops have a sign indicating that customers are not allowed in the work area "for insurance reasons".

Reply to
mack

I'm going to follow BadGolferMan's lead, and start changing my own oil.

There's a great CD-ROM that comes with the book "Auto Upkeep - Basic Car Care" by Michael E. Gray. On the CD is a great checklist of things to do when changing your car's oil.

Here it is:

Reply to
Built_Well

Built_Well wrote in news:470d6c85$0$68465$ snipped-for-privacy@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:

You may wish to re-study some of those instructions:

1) The note to put some oil on the filter gasket. Toyota OEM filter gaskets already come with lube. Do not add more lube to an OEM gasket. Make certain the old gasket came off with the old filter! Aftermarket gaskets can stick in place, causing engine failure later on if the new gasket gets added to the old one.

2) The need to jack the car up. Some Toyotas do not need to be jacked up to change the oil. Check where your filter is /before/ you do that. Also, consult your Owner's Manual. Any important instructions specific to your car will be in there, not in Auto Upkeep.

3) Tightening the drain bolt. Use a new washer every time, and make certain the old gasket has come off with the drain bolt! If it did not, remove it manually. Do NOT overtighten the drain bolt. Home grease monkeys always want to reef down on the bolt as tight as they can, then wonder why it strips. All you need is 18 ft lbs.

4) Using a shop rag to "protect" yourself from hot oil as you remove the drain bolt. That's dumb advice. It guarantees the oil will go all over the place as it strikes the rag. The oil will come out with some force. It's better to wind the bolt slowly out to its very last thread, wiggling the bolt to make sure it's actually disengaged from its mating threads, then quickly snatch it out of the way. Do it right and your hand stays clean as a whistle.

5) Running the engine 5 or ten minutes before draining. After only 5 or ten minutes the oil is still pretty cold. A lot of it will hang up in the oil galleries, so you'll need to leave the car to drip for the next ten or 15 minutes to make sure as much comes out as possible. If the filter and bolt are accessible without jacking the car up, just leave the car cold when you drain (don't start the engine). That way all the oil's in the pan.
Reply to
Tegger

Depends upon which Toyota you are talking about. Lexus and Avalon have a special oil filter that drains through a tube attachment. You never have to get dirty at all. (But I usually find a way to do it, nontheless;>)

Reply to
hls

Ray, our good friend hls wrote in a different newsgroup that an impact wrench--the kind used by my dealer's technician--may not be sufficient to measure the exact, proper torque.

With Hls's permission, I will repeat his comment below:

"Took our Avalon for its first (5000 mi) service last week. I asked the service writer IF they used torque wrenches to torque the lug nuts and he said no, they use impact wrenches with torque stix.

"I requested that they use a proper torque wrench, and it was written into the service request.

"This oil change, filter, and tire rotation cost me $43.11. A pretty good deal, I think."

Reply to
Built_Well

Say, I saw a torque wrench at O'Reilly Auto Parts today for $25. Do ya think it would be accurate?

Saw a nice 2.5-ton low-profile floor jack at Walmart today from a company called Black Jack (not Black And Decker) for $30, and it came with its own carrying case! This isn't a

2-ton jack, but a 2.5-tonner. 14.xx-inch max.

If you really wanna go cheap, Walmart has a 13-inch, 2-ton floor jack for $14.85 (that's the GM Goodwrench I mentioned yesterday).

Walmart doesn't sell torque wrenches ;-)

But they do sell two jack stands for only $10. Everyone else wants $20.

Did buy a 10 millimeter socket from AutoZone today to unscrew the air filter's housing ($2.xx). Napa wanted $3.xx.

Reply to
Built_Well

My Subaru and my Chevy truck don't need to be jacked up. Good point - my mother's old Hyundai had an almost impossible to change filter where it was located.

I prefer to now use a pair of disposable gloves. Less mess, less used oil goodies under my fingernails. The oil's not THAT hot, you're not soaking in it, you're just removing the filler plug.

The funny thing is the reason why I started wearing disposable gloves when working on cars... kids. When my first kid started teething two years ago and wanted to chew on my knuckle... it couldn't be if I just came in from the garage, and even then... blech...

Kids do the weirdest things to you...

Ray

Ray

Reply to
news

========

You're a real mench/mensch Tegger :-)

Reply to
Built_Well

filter is /before/ you do

to your car will be in

where it was located.

strikes the rag. The oil

bolt to make sure it's

the way. Do it right and

goodies under my

removing the filler plug.

working on cars... kids.

knuckle... it couldn't be if

Best to wash up after choking the chicken!

Reply to
sharx35

From the NIH (National Institute of Health):

"Warning: continuous contact with used motor oil has caused skin cancer in laboratory animal tests. Avoid prolonged contact. Wash skin with soap and water. Launder or discard soiled clothing."

Reply to
Mark A

Why? I've always reused them and never had a problem in hundreds of thousands of miles. What's to say the new one won't be defective! If it's something from the "help bin" and it's not OEM it may not even be quality material but some Chinese junk that will crack when it gets hot.

and make certain the old gasket has come

Of course it will depend on what oil you use but most people are using

10W- or similar oils. When you pour a 10W into the engine just how much do you see "hanging up" in the bottle?? Do you hold each bottle over the funnel for ten or 15 minutes??? My 10W is plenty thin to pour out without hanging up, the oil in the engine will be the same.
Reply to
Ashton Crusher

In my former career, I would have made no money at all if I hadn't allowed customers watch me - very closely.

Reply to
sue_dbastard

It seems like maple seeds and insects accumulate at the bottom of our air filter housings, along with some larger chunks of dirt. I'll be honest - I usually don't bother getting that stuff out of the housing because it doesn't hurt anything and I don't feel like getting the shop vac out. Most shops do not have a vacuum at every stall, so the tech would either have to go get a shop vac from the detailer or use compressed air to blow the stuff out. The problem with using compressed air is that the stuff could get blown into the MAF sensor or into the intake snorkel without the air filter in place, or the MAF hot wire could be damaged.

There is a specified torque for every bolt and screw in the vehicle, but it is not critical to use a torque wrench on air filter housing screws, and I have never seen one used there. Just tighten until the housing cover is snug. Over-tightening the screws could crack the plastic housing or warp the housing so just snug the screws.

Reply to
Ray O

I think including the spare in the tire rotation is optional and not necessarily a recommended procedure. I personally prefer to wear out only 4 tires instead of 5, but the opposite side of the argument is that tires have a finite life even when unused, so using them while they still have life makes some sense.

Reply to
Ray O

Holy cow! It takes less time to change the oil than it probably took to type all that up!

So the oil flows more freely and drains more completely. Even multi-viscosity oils flow more freely when hot. As Tegger pointed out, the oil should be hot, not just warm, or be prepared to wait a long time for the oil to stop draining.

If you are talking about SAE viscoity grades, 5W-30 is typical for most late model Toyotas.

Always use the highest API rating available, currently SM for gasoline engine passenger vehicles.

Check this API guide out for info about motor oil grades and ratings:

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In the old days, this was to prevent the oil filter gasket from sticking to the block. Toyota OEM filters come pre-lubricated so you should not add an additinal film of oil.

The answer depends on the engine application.

Reply to
Ray O

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