toyota dealer adding $650 TAD to KBB listed dealer invoice price (BS?)

You mean recalls like the current Toyota recalls on mostly every one of the light trucks they sold over the past four years and the Prius? Get real, a recall actually mean the manufacture has found something that is not up to snuff and they are going to fix it, most likely for free.. Even if it is out of warranty like Toyotas 'gelling' problem. EVERY manufacture has recalls of some type or other. I would be worried if they didn't, nobody makes a perfect vehicle every time that is why they all have a warranty even RR If you think Toyotas don't break down just like the vehicles of every other manufactures you live in a dream world. ;)

mike hunt

hachiroku wrote:

The price of acquistion is not the only consideration when buying a car. How about long-term ownership costs. This includes fuel economy, maintenance, and resale value. Toyotas are typically the best in fuel economy in its market. I'm not talking about the EPA ratings. I'm talking about owner actually obtain with their own driving styles. The warranties on domestic vehicles are inferior too. So if something goes wrong, you'd have to pay more. Parts prices on domestic vehicles are ridiculous now too. You can argue that you can buy aftermarket parts but I'm taking about OEM parts. Lastly, Toyotas are the easiest to service overall. Let me give you an example: Air cabin filters. These can be easily replaced by the owners by simply opening their glove boxes. On GM and Ford, parts of the dash have to be disassembled. This forces most owners to pay $100 or more to have it changed. Lastly, long term reliability of Toyotas are far superior to the domestic brands. If you have to replace more parts more often, is it really cheaper then? Of course not.

One again you are wrong. GM has more than twice as many. GM offers sixteen models that get 30 MPG or more that all use 87 octane fuel. Toyota has only nine and several of those require more expensive grades of fuel. LOL

mike hunt

Viper killer wrote:

Wrong Mike, its not required, just recommended.

Isn't the point of VVTi to allows the use of various grades of gasoline without concern about engine damage (detonation)? I know my Avalon runs fine on regular, although it takes premium to get top performance (would be hard for the average driver to notice the difference, however).

Merritt

Variable valve timing with intelligence varies valve timing depending on engine RPM to help the engine "breathe" more efficiently. Electronic spark advance prevents ping.

Aha! Thanks for the correction. In any case, the point is that the engine is designed to run properly on various grades of gasoline without detonation (ping), and the owner's manual so states.

Merritt

MDT, that may be but why would anyone want to use a lower octane fuel, on a vehicle that is already under powered, to save a few cents? ;)

mike hunt

Liberals are the parasites of society wrote:

It all depends on your perspective, but very few automobiles are "underpowered" these days (every Toyota I have had could easily exceed 100 mph on regular fuel). In any case, higher octane does not equate to greater power, only greater anti-knock ability. True, that allows the engine to use more optimal ignition timing under conditions of high demand (such as hill climbing or strong acceleration), but under more usual driving conditions, there is no more power being produced by the premium fuel.

Merritt

One of the advantages of a distributorless ignition is a lot more flexibility in ignition timing.

LOL, OK, I see the winky face. But at 230 hp, its not underpowered. Can zip up the molehills of PA without a problem. The new 3.5 is even more HP ;D

But alas, were is the torque needed to pull the grades and why do Camrys ALWAYS drop behind other traffic on the grades?

mike hunt

Liberals are the parasites of society wrote:

Probably because the Camry drivers neglect to turn off overdrive.

Merritt

If the engine produced a decent amount of torque, at the proper RPMs they is no need for the tranny to down shift. ;)

mike hunt

Merritt Mullen wrote:

You can't get the "proper RPMs" for maximum power while in overdrive.

Merritt

You forgot to say, while driving a 4 cy Camry. That IS their problem I have no problem going up those same grades in fifth gear ;)

mike hunt

Merritt Mullen wrote:

I don't either in my V6 Avalon, but that doesn't mean I am getting maximum power when I stay in overdrive. On my 4 cylinder Camry, I punch off the O/D button and accelerate up the hills.

Merritt

Alas there goes the fuel savings you THOUGHT you would get with an under power vehicle LOL

mike hunt

Merritt Mullen wrote:

Just because I shift down to go up a steep grade? Don't be silly.

Merritt