I changed the Camry's ATF today (added Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF)

Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV, replacing it with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 3.7 quarts of red T-IV drained out and I replaced it with 4 quarts of red M1 Synthetic. The extra 1/4 of a quart or 0.30 quarts isn't too much extra, is it? Not enough to cause foaming or windage, right? (Not even sure windage is an issue in automatic transmissions like windage can be with motor oil inside an engine.)

Anyway, the car really likes the M1 ATF so far. True only about

50 percent of the car's total ATF capacity is M1. The other 50 percent is the factory fill of T-IV (now 25,000 miles old and 3.5 years). Maybe it's my imagination, but the car seemed like it was shifting a lot better today with the M1 synthetic in it. Or maybe it's just a result of having some fresh sauce in the car.

I took a sample of the drained T-IV ATF and will mail it to Blackstone Labs tomorrow, just for fun. I don't expect to see any problems.

The only thing I didn't much care for during the ATF change was the surprise of finding an Allen wrench socket on the transmission pan's drain plug. It's not a regular bolt, so I wasn't able to use my trusty Craftsman torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 36 foot-pounds. This is an '06 Camry, and unfortunately the Camry service and repair manual I downloaded from CamryStuff.com is for an older 2002 (same

5th generation Camry but the '06 and '05 models are considered Generation 5.5 --they differ slightly from the 2002 to 2004 cars). So after reading the CamryStuff .pdf document, I was expecting to torque a regular drain plug bolt to 36 foot-pounds, but obviously I couldn't with the Allen wrench (ie, hex? wrench) drain plug. Is there some way to properly torque an Allen wrench bolt? Does it take a special adapter fitted to your torque wrench?

I'm concerned I came close to stripping the threads by overtightening with an unmeasured Allen wrench. If I did come dangerously close to stripping the threads, might the pan start leaking sometime in the next few days? Or weeks? Or even months? So far no leaking. Well, I noticed I did have some leaking after the first Allen wrench tightening, so I tightened further, and further again. I think I should have waited for the complete ATF fluid dripping to stop before doing any tightening. The dripping may have lead to my problem of possibly overtightening and coming very close to stripping the threads. I waited for only one drip every 3 seconds, but even that, I think, was too soon to begin tightening.

Anyway, is there some way to check the torque of an Allen wrench drain plug bolt, or to torque an Allen wrench bolt properly in the first place?

Reply to
Built_Well
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1/4 quart is not too much extra and won't cause damage.

Just get the proper size Allen wrench with a 1/2 inch drive or whatever drive you torque wrench has. It looks like an allen wrench stuck in a socket.

With the Allen wrench mounted in a 1/2 inch drive, you can't really measure how tight the bolt is but you can check to see if it is tightened to at least 36 foot pounds. To torque the bolt properly in the first place, it has to be removed.

Reply to
Ray O

Why would you not be able to measure the torque of an allen wrench socket? Why even use a torque wrench?

Reply to
dsi1

Check it hot and idling, Yes 1/2 qt is to much and will make a big difference, lower it , it will put less pressure on seals and shift better and maybe better mpg- less oil, less parts submerged. dont forget the differential.

Reply to
ransley

Hot and idling, yes, of course. On a level surface, naturally. But in what gear--park?? neutral??

Reply to
Sharx35

For those rare occassions that I need a hex type socket; I cut about an inch off the long side of the allen wrench & then use the proper size socket to loosen or tighten. I use one setup like that for my GM brake calipers & another for my Camry tranny.

Reply to
MCL

My statement was worded poorly. Regardless of the type of drive system a fastener has, whether it has an Allen type head square drive, or hex head, you can't measure how tight the fastener is, but you can measure how much torque is takes to tighten the fastener some more. In the OP's situation, I assumed that the OP has started the engine and the fastener has undergone at lease one heat-up and cool-down cycle, so the torque needed to move the fastener is not really an indication of how much it was tightened although he could tell if it was tightened to at least 36 foot pounds if a torque wrench set to that figure doesn't move the fastener.

All that said, I would not bother to use a torque wrench in that situation and just install the plug, but if someone did not have a good feel for how tight to fasten a drain plug, then a torque wrench might be a good idea.

Reply to
Ray O

Check it hot and idling, Yes 1/2 qt is to much and will make a big difference, lower it , it will put less pressure on seals and shift better and maybe better mpg- less oil, less parts submerged. dont forget the differential.

***************** The transmission fluid pan is only a reservoir and is not pressurized, so the additional pressure on the transmission pan gasket is only from any additional oil, which in the case of 1/4 quart would be negligible. The parts of an automatic transmission that are "submerged" need ATF to lubricate, develop line pressure, or otherwise function and get their ATF because the transmission pump picks up the needed amount of fluid from the reservoir and circulates it throughout the transmission.
Reply to
Ray O

I mostly agree.. A quarter of a quart would not raise the level in the pan/tranny much at all. I dont think it would be any problem at that level.

Reply to
HLS

How will it "put less pressure on seals" if the level is reduced 1/2 quart to normal?

How does one go about remembering the differential on a U240E? Any extra steps you might want to share with the OP?

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

Thanks for the clarification, I tend to get confused a lot! :-)

Reply to
dsi1

One wouldn't be surprised that the excellent Mobil-1 fully synthetic ATF works better than the conventional (dino) version called Mobil-3309 (Toyota T-IV).

You can get these hex sockets. For just > Today I did a drain and refill of my transmission pan's Toyota T-IV,

Reply to
john

That's a good way to do it. Then use Lock-Tite to "glue" it into a socket. However, I've never tried to hack saw one before. Harbor Freight is fast and convenient, and when on sale, cheap too. :)

Reply to
john

Allen wrenches (#1 below), or hex wrenches, as pictured, is meant to be used by hand. You can't adapt it to a ratchet or torque wrench unless you saw it off like MCL wrote. A hex socket (#2 below) can be used with a ratchet or a torque wrench and you can set the torque needed on the torque wrench (#3 below).

However, in most cases, without much effort, you can achieve about

25-30 lb/ft easily with a standard length 3/8" ratchet (#4 below). So I doubt most people here even use a torque wrench for drain bolts, but it's a good idea especially on aluminum threads.

  1. Allen wrench, or hex wrench:
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  1. Hex socket:
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  2. A 3/8"-drive torque wrench:
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  3. Some 3/8"-drive "standard length" ratchets:
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Reply to
john

wrench:

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socket:

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wrench:

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ratchets:

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Oh, horseshit! You can waste your time homebrewing an allen male on a socket, or spend a couple of bucks and buy one at any FLAPS.

This is ridiculous.

Reply to
HLS

Use a nut and a socket.

Reply to
Bret

The reason I think I may have partially stripped the threads of the transmission pan when I tightened the drain plug bolt with an unmeasured Allen wrench is the ease with which the wrench turned during my third and final tug on it.

I actually stopped tightening after the first tug, but the drain plug was leaking 15 minutes later when I checked it. So then I may have overdone it with a third tug or twist of the Allen wrench.

It seemed like that third and last tightening was a bit too easy compared to the first two. That's why I think I may have partially stripped the threads.

No leaking is happening 2 days later, but what course of action should I take now if, indeed, the threads are partially stripped?

For example, to save the threads, should I completely untighten the drain plug bolt as soon as possible, and re-tighten? If so, I'll just commit to doing another drain and fill to bring the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF to 75 percent of total fill (right now the fill is a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1 and T-IV ATF). Or should I just leave well enough alone, and not untighten the bolt? Will the threads survive for years if they're partially stripped?

Also, is it possible that the easy turning effect I felt during the third twist of the Allen wrench may not have been caused by a partial stripping of the threads, but instead by a slight compression of the new metal gasket (or crush washer) that I inserted between the drain plug bolt and the trans pan?

In this case, if it was the metal gasket/crush washer that caused the easy turning of the wrench during the third final turn, can I be reasonably safe in thinking that the pan's threads are not stripped after all? And call it a day? Thanks :-)

Reply to
Built_Well

The pan and plug threads are OK, but if you got that "too easy" give feeling on the third pull then you probably distorted the gasket. If so you should consider replacing the drain plug crush washer again. It should have been replaced during the original drain/fill job. You mentioned "new gasket" once, but I'm curious where you got it. The easiest place to get the proper one is at the Toyota dealer. Part number is 35178-30010 and current list price is $2.17. You can buy proper aluminum crush washers much cheaper in bulk, and perhaps you can find a small cheap assortment of correct diameter, crappy, too-thin copper washers at a parts store, but as a DIYer, for

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

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Thank you Toyota MDT :-) It's good to know that I probably didn't strip any threads. I got the metal gasket / crush washer from the Toyota dealership for $2.24 before tax. For some reason, their invoice/receipt shows a different part number, though: 90430-18008.

Since you think the threads are okay, I'll probably wait a while before doing another drain and refill--maybe wait until 50,000 miles. Thursday's drain and fill was done at 25,000 miles and 3.5 years. I will keep an eye on the ATF dipstick to guard against any leaks (so far so good). Just curious: if a leak does eventually happen and I don't detect it in time, will a dashboard warning light come on? If so, which one? (Those ATF dipsticks are notoriously hard to read, aren't they.)

Would anyone know if the ATF pan, painted black, is made of aluminum like the metal gasket / crush washer is made of aluminum?

Also, in 3.5 years when I do a second ATF drain and refill, would my Sears Craftsman 1/2-inch torque wrench work well enough to torque the ATF drain plug to 36 foot-pounds (I guess I can get a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter if the hex/Allen socket is fitted for a 3/8" wrench instead of a 1/2" wrench).

And wouldn't the proper torque of 36 foot-pounds safely fall outside the

10 or 20 percent range of the wrench's capacity of 150 foot-pounds for plus or minus 4 percent clockwise torquing accuracy.

On the other hand, the wrench's instruction guide does say that at low foot-pound numbers, the wrench is barely audible when it clicks, and may even not click at low numbers, in which case I might be better off using a beam type torque wrench.

Reply to
Built_Well

They charged you more than list for that part, but thanks for posting it

- it lists cheaper than my suggested part number. I'm just used to what local dealers stock (or at least bill out) around here.

Not directly.

If a dash light comes on as an indirect result of running out of trans fluid, you will already be too boned to worry about which light it is.

No.

Steel.

20 percent range of the wrench's capacity of 150 foot-pounds for

Not necessarily. What is the tool's part number?

Hence my previous suggestion. Even a cheap beam will be fairly accurate in general. *

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Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

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