It's official...The biggest trashbuckets on the planet have slipped to # 3 in sales volume for 2003. Guess who's # 2? The world finally knows what we've known all along! Oh, and great marketing, too..."If you haven't looked at Ford lately,look again" Sounds like an admission of poorness for past production. That dumb stump jumper singing makes me cringe!
Personally, I have 3 Toyotas (2 4runners and a Toy RV) and a
1994 Ford F-150 (for work). I have no problems with the Ford truck other than rust. The Ford I-6 was a great engine.This news is quite old and you're also quite uninformed. If you include Ford's 1/3 ownership of Mazda, they're still #2.
Keep in mind, the only Ford I'd own are truck or vans. Next time on the road, keep a count of *work* vehicles on the roads and see how many Fords you see.
Oh, one more thing. When the do break, and all vehicles even Toyotas break, the price of parts don't break your wallet like a Toyota. In fact, that is my only gripe about Toyotas; the cost of parts when you have to go to the dealership.
It's a good thing Toyotas don't need a lot of repairs unless they're mistreated. Remember, FORD stands for Fix Or Repair Daily... :>))
Tom...
Not a gob of power, but OK torque. It was stout!
OK, shall we add Scion, Lexus, all industrial trucks including forklifts?
Toyota doesnt build 3/4 or 1 tons. But hang tough, they WILL have a truck that will compete with the F350 in size and power. We have already been told all shop hoist need to have a 10,000 lb rating for the future. Now this isnt for the work trucks total weight, but the truck with its work cargo.
I'd rather pay twice as much for a part that last twice as long instead of paying half, doing it twice and paying a mechanic to install it again. Oh, and they may cost more, but its not that bad. Regular parts are very competitive now. This is something Toyota has been working on for a while. It continues to get cheaper in cost. An example, TPS used to cost $200+, they are only $65 retail now. Same quality!
Guys, I have a Toyota and Ford pickup. In 10 years of each, the Toyota folder is full of oil changes, tires and timing belt. The Ford folder is 2" thick, has oil changes, tires, waterpump, radiator, AC compressor, AC 134a changeover due to unfound leaks, brakes calipers and a $2700 EOD transmission.
If I had to guess, the lower price Ford with higher repairs is about the same as the premium price of a very deluxe 4x4 sr5 Toyota pickup when new. In fact the Toyota was so expensive, I'm shocked I or anyone would buy it.
Funny... I had a slightly used Ford Ranger... and sold it because it was crap...
Then I bought a brand spanking new, truck of my dreams, a Toyota Tundra... and had it bought back through the Lemon Law because it was unfixable crap... (18 times back for the same 4 issues over 11 months)
Took the cash and got a full size from the #1 truck maker (Do I need to say Chevy here)... only change the oil, rotate the tires, and fill up the windshield washer fluid...
A57Redfish wrote:
If all costs weigh out the same as yours have, the end result will always be the Toyota has a higher resale value than a Ford, which makes it cost less in the long run. The best Fords I've ever seen is their new line of SD with the diesel. The engines hang tough, get good fuel mileage and don't require much maintenance. The new trans is supposed to be tougher than the E40D, we put two of the 2003's with the new trans in the fleet last year so we should know in a couple more years. All the rest of the truck seems to require more maintenance than a Toyota as it always has. davidj92
You don't buy gas? My truck would last forever, too, if it just sat around wiping windows.
That still gets us back to the guy who had a friend who had a brother-in-law who had a grandfather who smoked 30 packs of cigarettes and lived to me 130 years old, thus proving that smoking is not bad for you... :>))
One, or even two instances do not a trend make...
Tom...
True... but the trend I've seen is this:
14000 miles in 11 mos on the Toyota and unfixable issues... People from the mothership descend to fix my problems... only to phone home to find the next highest ranking tech... Since going Chevy (yes I buy gas... but amazingly less than with the Toyota, and it's a bigger "less sophisticated" engine) I have put 13K on in 8 mos. with no issues... I also posted to a web forum and here regarding the Tundra when I started experiencing issues... What I found there was a sprinkling of people with unfixable break problems, unfixable and unexplainable clunks, blue smoke from the exhaust (I could go on)... My wife's Highlander is a peach... no problems there... and she loves (I think it's kinda fun to dive too)... Not knocking Toyota... I've seen Tacomas run forever... My experiences tell me the Tundra has some fundamental design issues... And those issues I experienced were not simply mine, I found them repeated in other forums by other drivers... More so than 1 or 2 instances, enough so I decided to enter into litigation and loose $$ on the deal because of the mileage at turn in... I didn't want to be paying the bills when the truck came out of warranty.TOM wrote:
So on the end, it pencils out as being cheaper than! ;-)
Wouldn't surprise me if Toyota is now sitting on its laurels and letting things slip though like blown head gaskets, rattles, transmission slips, and overly high parts. Personal friend's have two Toyotas parked in their driveway and both are broken. They rely on a Chevy company truck to haul them around. In time, this will come back to haunt Toyota as it is now haunting Ford.
Ford needs to get their engines to work properly and not continure to be plagued by computer problems and cooling issues. They should offer a no squable warranty, back it like they mean it (like 8 years and 80,000 bumper to bumper), and not secretly do away with the "Fix it once, we pay for it from then on" like they do in the '80's.
Ford's styling - excluding the Edsel - and body work is fine. They just can't build a vehicle with a good lasting power-train. Build it like you mean it Ford.
BP~
"TOM" sez:
Remember, FORD stands for Fix Or Repair Daily... :>))
My kid told me it stands for "Fuck, Our Ride Died" ...
Good wrenchin' to ya, VLJ
"jester" sez:
I didn't want to be
Uh oh. If your GM (Generally Mediocre) is anything like the '97 Suburban advanced entropy vehicle I had, there are going to be lots of future tears in your beer.
Good wrenchin' to ya, VLJ
I normally just lurk, but being a bowtie fan; I'll have to say 'less sophisticated' is better. My neighbor sold his 92 F150 for a 99 taco and says he regrets it everyday. I think he'd have another truck by now but he bought his wife a 2001 tahoe new off the lot. I know people talk about Toyota reliability, but I can't see in spending so much money for a truck (i.e. Tundra) when an 83 Chevy 4x4 (my daily driver) does everything it will and all the $$$ i've invested in it over the last 6 years of owning it wouldn't even make up a 1/4 of the price of a new Tundra. Now albeit, mine is not a luxury sedan, but does the job. My son's 90 Z71 w/165K miles is also tight and can haul a trailer, loaded bed, or a person just as well as a new Tundra. The new Chevy's (although not very good looking IMHO) are good trucks. Like I said, my neighbor's Tahoe hasn't needed anything(not counting oil changes, etc) and with 30K on the odometer. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'd rather pull out tools to work on my truck rather than a computer or something like that. I didn't mean to step on toes or offend, i'm sure this will get blasted by some avid new truck/toyota fans; I just figured I'd throw my 2 cents in.
Have a good one TB
THe Toyota figures already included Lexus and Scion and Hino and Dahatsui. Toyota only partially owns those last two. If you omit there sales, Ford still out sells Toyota. Or if you add in Mazda sales, Ford
Ed
Interesting discussion after my inital post. Lots of people bring good points to the table. I think a key factor here is overall profit and profitability. If I buy lemonade for 1 dollar and sell it for 50 cents, don't you think I'm gonna do more volume? Ford has been selling lemonade for a quarter and you are comparing that with selling lemonade for 2 dollars?. Who cares what subsidiaries you add in...if you aren't making money, believe me- you AREN'T going to make it up in volume!!! I think this most recent quarter is the first profitable statement I've seen from them in a looooong time.
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