Question, How many people here have had the chance to observe people who own
4x4's, but do not know how to use them in winter driving conditions like ice and snow? Down here in Houston, and Texas in general these conditions create all kinds of fun situations for people who think they can drive, but really can't, get into. I really love it when someone who has a jeep ends up on an icy road, thinking that the engaged 4x4 will help them maintain control only to find out that it does not make a difference. Ok, my two cents worth now that the ice, sleet, and snow have arrived in Texas.
I moved from Philly, where we had good snow on a regular basis (used to, anyway), to southern Maryland where people don't have a clue how to drive in snow. If snow is in the forecast, even something like flurries, everyone cleans out the grocery stores and bunker up in their homes. The brave few who venture out end up skidding all over the place and wind up in drainage ditches.
One of the greatest driving lessons I've ever learned was going out in about six inches of snow and just screwing around - it taught me what my vehicle can handle and what it can't. Most people learn this lesson the hard way in the wrong scenario and end up wrecking their vehicles.
When it snows here (not very often) we go to my friend's farm and run our jeeps rally-style around the fields, usually > Question,
Son, you don't get snow in Houston, just varying degrees of ice. I'll take real snow over that any day - they play hockey on ice and I just naturally hate the feeling of being a 4-pt puck. I remember Dad talking about visiting my brother up in Grapevine during one of those ice storms - he swore he put 30 miles on the odometer getting from the driveway to the end of the block. Those things were one of the main reasons I gave up my motorcycle. We had one hit while I was out at the base in Del Rio one day and getting that bike home on a sheet of ice was a real experience. At least with snow you have something of a rut to provide a little lateral control.
One of the funniest sights I ever saw was the night San Antonio got 8 inches of snow - the loop looked like a linear demolition derby and those durned fools didn't have enough good sense to stay home by the fire.
First thing I do in any snowfall or ice is hit the brake, and hit the gas, my wife always thinks I just want to play, but I acually just want to find what I can do before I HAVE to do it. Plus I like to play :)
Driving a 4x4 is a learning experience. They handle like no other vehicle when in 'part time' 4x4.
To stop when in part time 4x4, my owners manual says to 'stay off the brakes' and to use the gears and steering for slowing down or avoiding something. I have found that my Jeeps will stop amazingly fast like that and practice it off road all the time. Just need the brakes for the final stop. Folks are always told to stay off the brakes and use the gears when in PT 4x4 off road. Same deal when in PT 4x4 on road in a snowstorm!
The problem with using the brakes is the front and rear axles are locked together. In a normal 2 wheel drive vehicle when you hit the brakes in snow, the steering usually just locks up so you track straight ahead. Jeeps and most SUV's have a combination or proportioning valve that is supposed to prevent rear wheel lock up to avoid the vehicle swapping ends for this.
However when you are in part time 4x4, when the front wheels lock up... so do the rear wheels because of the nature of the locked center differential.
This means a Jeep or any vehicle in part time 4x4 will slide sideways faster than you can blink with all 4 wheels locked up. Instant off the high side of the curve ditch fodder.
I highly recommend folks use their 'shift on the fly' at any legal speed feature of the 4x4 so they get used to treating it 'just like any other shift'. See snow coming, shift into 4x4, see clear coming shift back to
2 WD. This way in an emergency, shifting into or out of 4x4 comes naturally.
I find 2 WD better when doing left turn at snowy or slushy intersections. I use 2WD then as I come out of the turn, I hit 4x4 to pull me into the straight. I find this because when turning in PT 4x4 one wheel has to scuff the ground because the front wheels and rear travel different distances around a corner. When this happens, the front wheels tend to get up on top of the snow and the Jeep just wants to go straight around the long corner unless you goose it to grab which isn't always a good thing to do.
I highly recommend an empty parking lot or open trail come first snow to find out just how your 4x4 does handle.
On our last New Years trip last year it was insane the number of SUV's that passed me in a snowstorm on the highway only to be found in the ditch off the top side of a corner aways along. I think we counted 8 in about a hundred miles. I was doing a nice 55-60 mph in 4x4 part time or keeping with the transport truck's speed.
Then if you see 'all' the transport trucks parked at the truck stops, it's time to rethink the timing of the trip and maybe stop for a break too.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail > Question,
We do get snow in Houston, about once every 15 to 20 years and for no more than 18 to 24 hours if that. Still, it is funny when the idiots get out. Time to get the cameras folks.
Mike, Thanks for the reply. Personally I'm amazed at the poor driving that I've seen here in Texas, even in good weather. Amazing what you see. As of my writing this there's been 100 major accidents reported around the state today. Amazing. Amazing lack of common sense in people.
Hav> Driving a 4x4 is a learning experience. They handle like no other
This might sound odd to some people, but I'd sell my mother for some snow. It's been mid-60s for about a week and a half now, which, although great weather for working on the XJ or driving the YJ with no top and doors, sucks because why have a winter at all if it's not going to snow? I'd move to SoCal if I wanted this kind of weather. Besides, it reeks havoc on the blue crab and oyster populations.
wow...that's chilly. I like cold as long as there's snow. If there's no snow, I'll take warmer temps. You obviously have snow, though. How much snow is on the ground?
OK, so help out the less fortunate. I am serious and not trying to be a jerk.
I live in the San Franscisco bay area so there is not much opportunity to learn ice and snow driving. You all know that though.
I do drive to central Oregon once or twice each winter. Most times the roads are good. This past Christmas we were on ice, ( with chain control for
2WD ), in Shasta then again on 97 between ~ Chiloquin and La Pine. This was the second most stressful driving experience ever for me. First was the same area ~10years ago. Anyway, we were in a line of traffic and it appeared most folks around us knew what they were doing. I could see that the big rigs had chains on but it did not appear the passenger cars did. Maybe they had studded tires. My wife was feeling comfortable in our ZJ until one of the handful in the ditch along the way was another ZJ. She also did not feel how we were slipping around @ 10-30 MPH.
So, how do I get to know how to drive in these conditions? I did Google winter driving schools but if I live in the areas that came back I think I could just 'go play' in an empty area as others have mentioned.
Is there a driving school for this in my area I have not found?
I learned how to drive in this stuff. The worst surface I ever drove on was ice with rain water on top of it. The only way to make progress was to put one wheel on the crunchy stuff at the edge of the road and two women on the hood (front wheel drive car). The second worse experience is when the snow is blowing so hard that you can't see the road surface. Then you have to drive ten feet or so, stop, and make sure you are still on the road.
You are not going to take a course, and then be able to handle winter driving "like a native". You need practice to get it right. You could try a few tricks like slowing down though. Lots of people don't know how helpful that is. The Denver Police practice on frozen Georgetown Lake. It is fun to watch. Knowing to turn into the skid helps.
Most states you don't need chains (legally that is) if you have four wheel drive and snow tires. Many times chain advisories only apply to "commercial vehicles".
There 'should' be driving schools all over for new 4x4 drivers!
I have wheeled with the Land Rover Factory Team when they were taking new Disco owners out to show them what they could do. Jeep sort of has a Jeep 101 here and there.
I used to take out groups come first snow to a local 4x4 sand pit area, but it became a problem over rights and garbage and tress pass. Haven't been back in a while, but last I heard from the local township and the land owners our 'RAMJ+W' newsgroup members, rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys folks are welcome due to us helping big time in a local clean up.
I got smucked up in a car accident as a passenger three years back so my off roading days kinda stopped unfortunately or I would be heading out this weekend, we just got our first snow. 2 cm or so and 700 accidents reported in this city alone.
I wrote a few suggestions in another part of this thread.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail > OK, so help out the less fortunate. I am serious and not trying to be a > jerk.
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