VW Passat 1.8T - 150K realistic? - 10 to 15 yr lifespan?

I have owned my 99 VW Passat 1.8 T for about 2 years now. Bought it used (at 50K) under the VW Certified Preowned program.

I now have about 88K and am thinking about selling it to a relative, just because I am interested in getting something new.

It's actually been a good car -- just a very misunderstood one. Having owned Hondas before and older American cars -- owning a European car for the first time was a learning experience for me.....i think a lot of the reliability problems that surface on these boards (with the exception of bugs inherent in first model year releases) are due to lack of maintenance.....

With a Honda or Toyota, all you have to do is keep the oil changed and it will be trouble free until at at least 125K -- then even with repairs here and there, you can squeeze over 200K out of a properly maintained car. American cars are disposible -- we recently went to Cape Cod for a friends' wedding, rented a brand new Monte Carlo and drove it for the weekend.....when we came back to Atlanta, drove my old passat back from the airport and couldnt believe how much tighter it was than a brand new monte carlo.......

The only problems I have had with the car can all be attributed to the fact that the previous owner changed the oil every 7K (found this out a the dealer later, when I was having my car serviced):

*Two parts were clogged with oil sludge -- check engine light stayed on and car even shut down once

*Replaced oil pump (had to pull some teeth for this one to get it covered under the VW Certified warranty)

*Catalytic converter went out at like 79,800 - barely covered under the 80K emissions control warranty

So -- this gets to my question. I want to get this car in good shape to sell to my relative. I would like to do the necessary repairs for the car to be trouble free.

# 1 -- what do i need to replace for preventative maintenance? anything other than the timing belt?

# 2 -- is 150K realistic for these cars? i always think used car ads are the best measuring stick as to how many miles you can realistically get out of a car...i see many 1.8T passats for sale with 140K plus...still with the original engines and transmissions......

# 3 -- i now know to .....always, always, always make sure the oil is changed at the dealer. It's the same price, offer saturday appointments and they have a nice cybercafe where you can wait. Ive made the mistake of taking it to Jiffy Lube -- they dont have the right filter and NEVER put enough oil in it.....which makes the valves tick...took me a while to figure out what the problem was.....

I also remember from childhood (im 30 now...so grew up in the

1980s).....having a couple of friends whose parents had VWs that they had for like 10 or 15 years......one had a Quantum wagon that she got in 1980 and was still driving when i was in high school, remember a lime green mid 70s Dasher wagon up the street was still around in the mid 80s, a Rabbit here and there......one friend had an Audi 4000 (about an 82 model..which i suppose wasnt that old in 87) and a VW Thing from the mid 70s......of course, not that this is a fair comparision, but I did have a neighbor with a 76 beetle that she drove until 1988....her husband got a new car every 3 years......

I read a very apt quote recently off the BMW message board -- when comparing BMWs to Japanese cars... the Honda or Toyota will be more reliable, but the BMW will be more DURABLE.....I think of my Passat at

88K....steering is still tight, you can hear the doors thump when they shut, runs smoothly, it handles great......

So, are these cars actually very durable -- but just not maintained properly by Americans?

Reply to
Brandon
Loading thread data ...

I'd say 150K Miles is more then realistic provided maintenance is kept up - for any VW.

The only thing that bothers me with VW is they use plastic impellers on their water pumps so you have to make sure to change them (mine was done at

60K on my TDI engine, at the first timing belt change... so I skipped it this time at ~120K Kms)... They're not perfect cars but they aren't as bad as they are rated in studies.

My catalytic converter just failed too... well it still works, but there is a 5" hole at the back of it, luckily the car has an emissions warranty, it's an 1159 dollar part!

-BTW I have a 1999.5 Golf TDI

No real "problems" with my car (tires, brakes, oil changes.... I did the shocks to get a firmer ride, okay my catalytic converter died too young, and my tie rod ends wore out after only 85 K Kms, but I drive the car too hard anyways), just that parts aren't cheap if you want good/proper stuff... and I think here's an issue too... there is cheaper stuff availible for these cars and people are using it - oil, brakes, tires, running regular gas and not premium (in the case of 1.8T and V6 engines), not putting any additives into North American diesel fuel (in the case of TDI's).... People aren't religiously maintaining their cars, they keep them filthy and somehow abuse their interiors so much that almost anything will fall off - radio buttons, latches for glove box, sunvisors..... etc etc etc - My car was a company car and the interior was in great shape despite constant use and abuse... so I don't know what people are doing.

To get the car in shape I would suggest doing a full wash and wax for the exterior, open the hood and clean all the grime around the edges of the engine bay where it is painted, same goes with the grime around the trunk, the door hinges - where ever there is paint - provided you can reach it... Then re-grease all the hinges and moving parts. Then vacuum the whole interior and clean the floormats with soap and water (if you have rubber mats), clean the dash off with a damp cloth, and clean the windows.... This will make the car look very respectable for sale.

Reply to
Rob Guenther

The surest way for a car to NOT last is to let rust take over. Otherwise, as long as the car is maintained and parts replaced or repaired as they wear out, it should last indefinitely. A million miles is not unheard of. Look at all of the old cars (Chevys, Fords, etc.) still being driven in Havana. They were new when Castro took over.

Reply to
Papa

Short answer - if looked after then yes, very durable.

A couple of things though....at 88K on a 99 car your timing belt is on borrowed time - specifically the tensioner is. The early TB tensioners are/were prone to failure with catastrophic consequences. There is now an updated version.

You need to get the belt and tensioner (and rollers) changed this week. Go have a look at

formatting link
& read the forums for the number of stories of failed cambelts on these engines - some as low as under 60K miles. The story is almost always the same - the early design of tensioner. TB failure will cost you at least $3000 to fix. AFAIK the TB service interval is 80K on the

98/99 cars so if it fails I doubt anyone is going to cover you because you are over the interval.

When you get the TB done you should also get the 3 ancilliary belts changed & while you are in there the Thermostat at least. Some people strongly recommend the waterpump as well. You have to take half the front of the car apart to get to the TB & so it makes sense to do some preventative maintenance whilst in there.

On the subject of Oil sludging, VWoA now mandate (via a TSB) synthetic oil and a much bigger oil filter for 1.8Ts. If your dealer doesn't know about this then find another dealer!

If you have had/have sludging issues then some Auto RX is your friend.

formatting link
Read the clubB5 forums for testimonials.

Other than that, as above, if looked after the 1.8T is very durable - and easily good for 200hp with a simple chip with little or no side effects. There are also plenty of them that have already gone way past 150K miles. Only other major weaknesses are the front suspension control arms which (like the Audi a4s & A6s) have a habit of wearing out & needing replacing. There is a recall out on one of these (front lower) on each side (there are

4 on each side in total).

HTH

I.

Reply to
Iain Miller

Keep up with te oil changes and replace the timing belt anf 150k is easy. I just had a 2001 1.8t in our shop last week for a battrery replacement. It had 145K and sill ran like new.

Reply to
Woodchuck

thank you for the info.

i want to get all these things done -- but the labor costs just kill me....the dealer wants $900 to put on a belt I could get online for $50........of course, I realize that $900 is cheaper than a $3000 engine rebuild.....

Still, how complex is replacing the timing belt -- assuming that you have the right tools? Any sources you can recommend?

Reply to
Brandon

Ok, scratch that. Just took a look at a website outlining how to replace a timing belt on an Audi -

formatting link
You arent kidding...you really do have to take half the engine apart....

Reply to
Brandon

Reply to
Rob Guenther

Have a look at the Clubb5 forums (B5 Garage I think) and look for DaddyMatt's write up on doing this. I did it myself about 3 months ago. It wasn't hard - just a long job but I kind of expected it to take a while, got myself properly setup to do it in a warm garage and worked through it methodically.

The parts needed will cost a bit - many folks on clubb5 have used ECS tuning's "Ultimate Timing Belt" kit with good results....

formatting link

I.

Reply to
Iain Miller

Believe it.....though 900 is a bit high it has to be said. $6-700 is more like it. Book time for a 1.8T TB is something like 4-5 hours. I know a good independent here in the UK who can do one in about 2.5 hours if they get a real bend on & if everything goes smoothly - but life's not like that. For a first time DIYer it'll take 8 hours at least.

I.

Reply to
Iain Miller

I paid 6-7hundred on my TDI, but that included the parts and labour.... the

900 was just on labour!
Reply to
Rob Guenther

That write up is for a 2.8 V6 - but the 1.8T process is similar in principle.

I.

Reply to
Iain Miller

Make sure that the dealer (or whoever changes the oil) uses the correct oil (VW 502.00 rated synthetic 5W-40 oil). Oil sludge risk is greater with conventional oil or sloppy oil change habits.

Reply to
Timothy J. Lee

I don't doubt in the slightest that your old Passat is tighter than a new Monte Carlo, but I do want to point out that American cars are not disposable... or maybe they are, but the disposal rate is higher than you seem to think...

My last truck was a '93 Dodge Dakota. I sold it with 185,000 miles and it still ran/drove as well as new. In those 185,000 miles, I replaced the timing chain (did the water pump since I was there), fuel pump, and one motor mount. I also changed the oil regularly and did the occasional (too infrequent) basic tune up & belt change. Oh, it got brakes a couple/few times too (just pads, it never needed rotors) and shocks once (shoulda been more than once). The guy who bought it from me had to replace the original clutch at 205,000 miles and last I heard he was still driving it daily. The paint did start falling off of it a year or so after he bought it from me. Of course, I probably only waxed it twice in the 7 years that I had it.

My current truck is a '00 Chevrolet Silverado with 132,000 miles. So far, it has needed one parking brake cable, and the back window had to be replaced due to a leak when it was new. It has gotten brake pads twice and got new front rotors on the 2nd pad change. Otherwise, just regular oil changes, a couple of belt changes and that's it. No tune up yet though I really need to get around to it. Still runs/looks new and gets the same fuel mileage that it did when it was new. I expect to get 200k out of it without major work. (and I'm knocking on wood frantically as I type this)

For comparison:

I bought my old diesel Jetta with around ~185k on it. It was extremely maintenance intensive - far more than my Dodge was at the same mileage. To be fair, the VW had a bunch more years on it than the Dodge did, and I don't know how the previous owners treated it. For the most part I wasn't unhappy with the amount of maintenance it required, but it sure wasn't a car that would be cost effective for the non-DIY to own at high mileage. The trans went at 225k, but I found a replacment from this group for very cheap. It still ran well on the original non-rebuilt motor at 250k when I sold it.

My wife's '02 Jetta wagon (1.8t) has been pretty good so far, but time will tell. I'm much more particular about keeping up with maintenance on it, and it gets everything the manual says right on time. It has been in for a coil pack recall (no failure) and a brake light switch that failed. Other than that, no issues... it has ~35,000 miles now. I expect to get

200k out of it too, but I'm betting it'll be more maintenance intensive as it gets older. Hopefully I'm wrong.

In any case, in my experience American cars aren't disposable... And you should easily expect to get 150k out of a reasonably maintained Passat, and probably much more.

Boy, that was long winded and pretty pointless... ;-)

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

couple/few

(shoulda

driving it

regular

extremely

mileage. To

wasn't a

mileage.

intensive as

Passat,

Point well taken.....I will rephrase...American cars (from the 1980s on) tend to be disposable, American trucks can last much longer.....though trucks are different, anyone I know who is driving a newer American car with 150 - 200K is on their second or third engine......

When you think about it, it makes complete sense...is just a matter of evolution.....American car companies had to start over in the 1980s in response to the gas crisis and EPA regulations.......they had very limited experience building four cylinders.....what they did build well were 8 cylinders, which perhaps explains why American trucks are more durable........even the 4.3 liter V6 engine that GM used was basically a 350 with two cylinders missing......

Europeans have used 4 cylinders from the get go......

Back to my car...really debating on whether to do it myself.........it kills me that I could spend about $200 on parts and replace my timing belt, V-belts, temp sensor, hoses and water pump.......the obvious concern, though, is that if I f**k it up - Im out $3K for an upper engine rebuild.......

Reply to
Brandon

Hi Craig:

Along those same lines, I own a 1995 Buick Roadmaster with 120,000 miles on it that I bought new. It still looks, and runs, almost like it just came off the showroom floor. I never have to worry about the timing "belt" because it is not a belt, it is a metal chain that even if it did break would not allow the engine to destroy itself - unlike a VW Dasher Diesel that I once owned. My first set of tires for the Buick lasted for 80,000 miles, and even had some tread left. This car has been really reliable, and is becoming a collector's item because it is no longer being made.

I also have a 1988 VW Cabriolet C>

Reply to
Papa

Hmm....see, ive always been able to talk cars -- but never had the courage to work on them. I am thinking that maybe I'll attempt something simple -- like switching out my front rotors and pads...see how that goes and judge if I can take on replacing that belt.....

Im looking online and it just kills me....the timing and v-belts together would MAYBE cost $50, water pump is $39, temp sensor is $5!!!!!...they wanted to charge me $350 at the dealer to do the temp sensor alone.....found a shadetree guy who said he would do it for $250.........

Am I being realistic here? Is it really that difficult to do basic maintenance repairs on these cars?

Reply to
Brandon

Reply to
Rob Guenther

Rotors & pads arn't too hard. Key thing with those is you'll have to push the pistons back on the calipers - for the fronts you can just use a c-clamp - for the rears you will need a caliper wind back tool - the piston has to be screwed back in.

For both the most important thing is not to force fluid back up the system - you can wreck the ABS (and overflow the reservoir!). What you do is clamp the flexible hose, attach a bleed hose to the bleed nipple, open the bleed nipple & then push/wind the piston back. This way the excess fluid exits via the bleed nipple (hopefully into a jar!) and you don't force it back up the system. From there replacing the pads is easy. The rotor will just fall off once you remove the caliper - they just float, there is nothing securing them to the hub once the wheel bolts are gone - that said if they are old they can need a bit of persuasion with a mallet.

If you intend to bleed the system after pad replacement (and you should) then put a piece of wood under the pedal so that it won't go right to the floor when you are bleeding - if it does you can pop some seals in the master cylinder. As long as you do those things its not hard. On the subject of brake bleeding you should really replace the fluid every 2 years anyway. To do this drain all the fluid you can out the master cylinder with a turkey baster & then refill. Then start at the right rear, thenleft rear, right front & then left front. Take 1/3 of a litre out the first one, 1/4 out the second & a bit less out the fronts. Watch the level in the reservoir as you go - you mustn't run it dry. Technically you should bleed the clutch too - its on the left side of the transmission case at the top - you can get to it from above by moving the coolant reservoir out the way (3 screws) but its a pain in the ass to get to. Also the clutch bleeder is plastic for reasons known only unto VAG so be carefull with it. The clutch shares the same fluid system as the brakes.

The belts yes, but you also need a new tensioner, a new tensioner roller and the small idle roller - those are much dearer. The T belt will do you for $250 odd in parts. You also need socketed Hex trives and Torx bits if you don't own them. You will not get the main crank pulley (are the water pump pulley) off without proper hex drives - allen keys won't cut it.

The engine temp sensor is located at the back of the cylinder head, costs less than $25 and can be replaced in less than five minutes. If you mean the Thermostat then that can be done from underneath in less than an hour if you know what you are doing - you'll need a "wobble" bar extension piece on a

10mm socket to get the bolts out. Saying that the last one I did took me way more than an hour but a garage mechanic/dealer with a lift and the right tools could do it in less than an hour.

See above re temp sensor & T-stat

For the T-Belt and the Water pump you have to dismantle the front of the car. There is no way it can be done for $250 including parts, Exluding parts then that *might* be realistic but I'd be very certain the guy knew what he was getting into before he started. I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig - I'd rather do it myself!

The 1.8T is quite a complex engine but jobs like brakes & even the T-Belt/waterpump are do-able by the patient & reasonably well equipped home mechanic. If you really have zero experience of working on cars then you either need to find someone experienced to help or pay to get it done - but make sure whoever does it has at least some experience with VAG engines. These are probably not good jobs to try as your first attempts at car maintenance.

HTH

I.

Reply to
Iain Miller

Reply to
USENET READER

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.