I am in the market for a new car. I would like opinions regarding the 2003
Audi 1.8T Quatro model. Any concerns/gripes/frustrations etc.......I test
drove the car and it felt really "good". However the price is a little
steep close to US $30k. A friend of mine also has the new 2004 Acura
TL....and it looks really "sharp" and for a little extra (just like $2k
more) you get way more bang for your buck (bigger car, bigger engine, more
standard features etc). I currently own a Honda and so am a witness to
their reliability. However, I have no experiece with German cars. So I
would like opinions on whether previous Audi owners would still go for the
much smaller Audi 1.8T rather than the abundant Acura TL.
PS - Auto consumer reports also show that the Audi reliability is not up to
par with Acura......any truth to that?
Thanks in advance!
I bought an A4 1.8 q five weeks ago. I love the car but I am also
getting a new, free turbo in about two weeks. Seems the original had a
I test drove the TSX, Passat 4Motion and the G35X. None compare. The
TL is close but the Japanese just miss the mark on fit and finish;
compare the cabin in the A4 with the TL and the 4 will win. And 270 hp
through the front wheels is too much. The TSX with 200 is too much; a
great way to be pulled into the corners. And the Audi has quatto. And
a bunch of other things that I found useful (split rear seats, ski
sack) that the TL will never have. They have priced and packaged it
very tightly but the answer really lies on the road. Drive them back
to backon the same twisty road. More hp from the TL is maybe not the
Pumba, the following is a copy of my reply to the subjet on 16th april:-
"Re: Hate, Envy and Angst: The Accord Owner belches about Audi A4:
suspension damage after only 35K"
had a 2001 Honda accord EX-I4 manual for the past 2.5yrs - and then sold
it in two seconds when I drove the 2001 A41.8Tq (with sports package) the
What can I say - unbelievable, the torque, power and Quattro is amazing! I
didn't get nearly the same excitement for the A4 2.8q. (and one of my
friends has a chipped 99 A41.8Tq - that put a bigger smile on my face let me
I test drove the Acura TSX last summer (ps I'm from England and now living
in Canada) and I was not impressed - For me personally there is no
Well I sold my accord last November, and I am still saving money to this
day to put a big chunk down on the 2002 A41.8Tq. Yep I going for the new
The 325 BMW just did not give me the big smile on my face that the A4 gave
me - yes it's all about smiles for me! yes the BMW was refined and silky
smooth engine - but that A4 - throw that car round a corner at 80 km/h and..
and... oops sorry I seem to be smiling again.
Anyway that's just my opinion!
Great.....I thank all for their opinions.
What about the reliability of the 2004 Audi A4 1.8T? For the 2003
model.....consumer reports suggest its reliability is not up to par with
Acura. All those die hard long time Audi owners want to shed some light?
I have been told that the maintenance costs for the Audi are much higher
than that of the Acura........at least here in the US. Any thoughts on
ppl do not buy audis for their reliability. they might be alot of things but
reliable isnt one of them. not that their unreliable - just that they need
alot of TLC - its not the kind of car u wanna use as a beater.
the things that go wrong with it tend to be botherline necessary -
suspension tends to be number 1 waste of money - but man what a suspension.
i bought a 97 a41.8t a year ago and it drives better than most new american
sedans u can get ure hands on. i wish i had the money to get a new turbo or
have the torque on it fixed tho cus its absolute rubbish rite now.
but ive got to replace the control arms and like clock work, the wheel
bearings are shot as well. lucky me.
the car is a sweet ride - when it works.
You also get the 4 year bumper to bumper with Audi. The Japanese don't
get that part. They have good products but...
I don't know about the reliability > 4 yrs with the TL or TSX. It is
probably good but then you are also getting less of a vehicle.
And I got the Tiptronic, Sport, Lighting and Premium packages. I mean,
geez, if you are going to spend all that money (and it is a ton more
here in Canada when you add 15% tax) why go small? Driving the is a
pleasure, in all conditions.
I have an '01 A4 purchased new; it is a V6 model with Quattro, sport
Prior to this vehicle, I was all Honda/Acura. My wife just sold her
88 Camry to her sister; it now has 300,000+ miles on it! Very
As for my '01 A4, it has 40,000 miles on it and the only issue has
been a wind noise problem on the drivers side door.
As for maintenance costs, it depends how long you will keep it. In
the US, Audi covers ALL items (brakes, wiper blades, fluids) for the
first 50,000 miles, so that is nice.
But, I agree with other posters, if you are looking "long-term - i.e.
250,000 miles), not sure Audi will compete as well as Toyota/Honda
without significant additional costs.
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The good news is that maintenance is free for the first four years/50000
miles. The bad news is that after that, it's expensive. Brakes are great but
don't last that long especially under spirited driving and when the pads
wear out you can pretty much count on replacing the rotors since they have
little meat available to machine. Audi has never been a paragon of
reliability and that's not about to change. I've owned Audis for over 18
years so I've had some experience. My 98 A4 2.8 quattro has suffered from
some of the common problems but also a couple of its own (clutch release
bearing and climate control fan both under warranty). I'm about to do the
timing belt and ancillary component replacement which typically runs well
north of $1000 if the dealer does it. It's also leaking oil. Fortunately, I
haven't suffered from the dreaded control arm problem which is likely a
consequence of living in sunny and dry Arizona. Although I am not that
familiar with the 1.8, people tell me that if you get the quattro on that
car, you really won't be thrilled with the performance unless you chip it
and if you do that, your warranty may be problematic. Also, IMHO, there is
not much point to getting a non-quattro Audi. Speaking of quattro, I love it
and it has always been one of the more reliable components of the car.
Actually, the major Audi components like the drive train are pretty
bullet-proof and engines like the old 5 cylinder seem to last forever. The
bits and pieces that break are smaller but quite costly items: anyone
remember the infamous breaking door handles of the older Audis? Goodness,
I'll bet that if you went into a scrap yard that the door handles on 90% on
non-Audis would still be functioning. Door handles are not rocket science.
Then there's the more recent embarrassment of the failing coil packs. It's
not like VW/Audi hasn't had about a century to develop coil technology. Or
maybe they buy them from Lucas.
At any rate, this Audi will be my last for awhile and for my next car I will
likely be returning to the rotary camp I left some 15 years ago. I suspect
there are few stock A4's or TT's that could keep up to an RX-8. And it comes
with about the same rear legroom as my A4. ;-)
Having owned both an Acura and an Audi, I can attest that Acuras are
somewhat more reliable in the grand scheme of things. However, if total cost
of ownership is your primary concern, don't mistake more reliable in a
general sense for inexpensive. Because my Acura was far and away the most
expensive car I've ever had to maintain.
First of all, the maintenance schedule for Acuras is overly extensive
and very rigid to boot. So visits to the dealer add up quickly. Secondly,
the drivetrain appears to be the only thing about Acuras that truly is
reliable. As everything else about them -- at least in the case of my
Acura -- seems to be made of flimsy junk.
For instance, the sheet metal on my old Integra was so thin that on more
than one occasion a simple door ding literally put a huge dent in a body
panel (the impact I saw occur should not have caused such extensive
damage) -- thus causing it to have to be replaced. And items as elemental as
interior plastics and even body paint (mostly on the bumpers) had a tendency
to just fall (or peel) off without warning -- again causing replacement or
So, all in all, I wouldn't exactly recommend an Acura for someone who
views reliability/overall cost as a major factor in their car buying
decision making process. Because the existing reliability of the drivetrain
appears only to mask the poor quality of all the things that reliability
ratings tend not to assess. And that doesn't even take into account the
Acura dealership experience, which is perhaps as bad as such a thing can
As for my Audi A4....it's had a few niggling problems in the 2+ years
that I've owned it. But all service and repairs have been completely free so
far (up until 4 years or 50k miles); my dealership experiences have been
nothing but great; and the cars materials and workmanship seem to be of a
very high caliber.
That said, if I were asked to make a recommendation to someone who held
reliability as their foremost concern in deciding on a sports sedan, I'd
probably steer them to Infiniti. Having owned one of those as well, I can
attest that most of what is right about Audis is also right about Infinitis.
The cars are solidly built all around, have a decent amount of sporting
"character" (which is rare for a Japanese car), and (perhaps unlike
Audi....I don't know yet) the costs of ownership are very reasonable due to
a flexible service schedule and very few "out of the blue" repairs. And, of
course, the dealer experience at Infiniti is beyond reproach. Thus, even
though I prefer my current Audi to my old Infiniti, I think highly enough of
that marquee to enthusiastically recommend it to anyone who places
reliability as the absolute first item on their list of priorities.
The TL is indeed a very nice car, and would definitely win in a reliability
Don't get me wrong, the reliability of the A4's are good, but Honda/Acura
(and Toyota ofcourse) are the bench marks here.
As far as power goes...the TL with its 270HP does the 1/4 in high 14 secs @
91mph. Any good chipped A4 1.8T will also do that with around 210HP!
I have never driven a TL, but drove a RSX-S. The RSX is definitely the best
handling Acura (besides the NSX). Although the RSX is very tight and a blast
to drive, it does not come close to the fun I have in my chipped A4. You
simply cannot nail the accelerator pedal whenever you like as is the case
with the all-wheel drive A4.
If you want space and reliability, go TL. For fun, drivability, traction in
all conditions, finesse, go for the A4.
If you do decide on the A4, make sure it is a Quattro with the sport
package( or ultra sport)
If bang/buck is the standard, German cars probably aren't the best
choice. The TL is still a FWD car from a company that makes mostly
econoboxes, no matter how much leather and wood they put into the
interior. That's not bad, it's just reality.
For a good idea about the niggles of Audi cars, do a Google groups
search in this ng for a list.
If reliability is the overall goal, stay with Acura/Honda. As a
former Honda owner, I might own another Honda as a beater to haul
trash/groceries/dirty kids, but my A4 is my primary transport. If
interior room is important, then maybe an A4 Avant (wagon) would suit
you better? They drive very nicely, and look pretty good too.
Consumer Reports is not a paragon for unbiased information, since the
basis for their numbers are self-selected (unscientific) surveys. But
the truth is this - Honda has a well-deserved reputation for
excellence in reliability. Audi is not as good. It's a trade-off
that many alt.autos.audi readers accept with relish.
List your automotive goals in order. If bang/buck and/or reliability
come out on top, or very near the top, you should steer clear of
German cars. If all-weather performance, well-balanced handling,
style and/or luxury are on top, then an A4 might suit your needs, if
you accept that it might not be as reliable as your previous Hondas.
If you ask the folks in the Honda newsgroup, the honest ones will tell
you the same things I have.
I can honostly say that if he does buy the A4 for the fun factor, a chipped
1.8T will be a far better choice. Better response in handling and
acceleration. Granted not as smooth as the V6 , but definately more fun.
Try both and judge for yourself.........
I have to largly agree here. If the 3.0 A4 is out of your price range - and
especially if you're looking for an Auto rather than a stick - buy the TL. The
Audi is more fun on Canyon roads IMO but the TL has the A4 beat on the
price:performance ratio, and 270Hp is hard to argue with. Plus, chipping a 1.8T
often means no warranty - I'm going trhough this with my Vw GTi 1.8T. Other
than that, take a look at the G35 and Nissan's Maxima (obviously FWD doesn't
bother you if the TL is a serious choice). OTOH, if it were my money and my
purchase, I'd find a used 2001 S4 and snap it up. Even with the tip it'll do
0-60 in under 6 seconds, has standard Quattro and is a BLAST to drive. A used
2.7T A6 isn't a bad choice either.
I don't agree. Even a great 4 can't match a good 6. BMW understood it. The
driving experience is much more enhanced with a 6. I just don't like the
tin-can sound of the 1.8T.
Too bad that VW/Audi 4 cyl. lost their velvety sound of the '80s. Then they
were easy to recognize only by the sound.
Merely your opinion. The Acura six is not in a league with the BMW
six in any case. Add to that the cheesy FWD layout and it's inherent
torque steer, and you have a poor driver's platform.
The reduction in weight from running a turbo four in the A4 makes the
car more balanced. The 3.0 is nice, but it's heavy.
Not just any six, but an I6. And RWD. A V6 and FWD aren't in the
LOL. From inside, you can't tell the difference in sound. Not even a
trained musician can tell the difference. From outside, who cares?
Tin can? Fart can mufflers are much more likely on an Acura, LOL.
LOL. What velvety sound? They sounded like underpowered 4-cyl,
cast-iron block, Al-head motors, just like all the others. The only
4-cyl car that had any sort of sound recognition was maybe the 2.0L
Alfa. Or the Mazda Miata.
Fawning over Honda products doesn't make them great. They have their
place, and that's in the rear-view mirror of almost any European
competitor. But hey, they *are* reliable, which means something.
Saying that they are some sort of driving machinery flies in the face
of real experience.
Not only it is in the same league, but it betters all its specs in the same
price range +/- 20%. Some will prefer the BMW I6 and others will prefer the
Acura V6 which has a terrific sound at 6000-7000rpm.
It is only between the two ears of the believer. Again, yesterday in the
SCCA Touring, a mere RSX won the race SCCA Touring at Atlanta over a crowd
Oh no, you are dead wrong here; VW/Audi 4 cyl. pre-Mk III had a very
distinct sound for whoever really knows the brand.
So Eric has AGAIN a new identity; Jonesy. Of course.
Specs??? As in "bench racing?"
FWD will never be a real driver's platform.
I do believe that the Acura is the torque-steer leader in the cost
And some will actual prefer *driving* a well-balanced I4 turbo car
that costs less than either of the other two, and can outperform the
Acura on everything except bone-dry tarmac. And you can't hear it
inside the cabin anyway!
What does a race-prepped RSX have to do with a road-going TL? Other
than the manufacturer name on the trunklid?
But you can claim it all you want - you haven't a shred of proof to
back up your silly claim.
I prefer to call you Eric; I am too ashamed, having to share my first name
with a frustrated retard like you. This thread is just another evidence;
what started as a normal thread finishes AGAIN with gratuitous insults from
your part. End here.
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