What happens when it becomes slightly slippy when you're coming out of a
corner then?! Although saying that all modern RWD cars seem to be set up to
understeer anyway. I'm itching to get a RWD 'old skool' car, just need some
This is both their strength and their weakness. To most people going from a
RWD, the current 3-series feels broadly similar. Now if the driver
concerned isn't an especially keen driver, they'll never ever know what the
differences in handling are _until_ the first wintery frost.
My boss has a nice metallic grey 320d Tourer. He didn't know it was rear
wheel drive (not even the tyre wear gave it away) but was protesting that it
was "all over the place" in the frost, and "the ESP does nothing."
If you're gung-ho, it's possible to get them to behave as old school rear
wheel drive machines, and the bosses diesel estate did give a little
(wonderful diesel charge!) wriggle on a roundabout . . . but that said, they
feel very much diluted.
Robin Hoods and Locusts come in a lot cheaper than that - but, as with most
things, you can often get what you pay for. An enthusiast-built Locust is
probably the better choice (ducks behind parapet ;o)
Did the swap in the middle of a stream of cold winters, back when everyone
was talking about the possibility of running into a new Ice Age. Ten years
on, apparently it's Global Warming. Hmm.
Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point :) You flaw your
entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot hatch
Only if it was a hairdresser driving it ;)
If you have any sense of how to really drive a car you can use the
'dangerous' handling traits in your favour. Guess you're not quite
experienced enough as a driver. Better stick with your volvo and all its
fancy electronic gubbins.
Oh no, dont mention a French car to Mr Kemp. He's of the utterly ridcuolous
opinion that 205s do not handle very well. He has forgotten what real cars
are liked because he's been cocooned away in his safe 'family cars' for too
ah a local boy. i'm from Totton, but occasionaly do road ralies up round
regardless what some of you may think about TT's, I've had my 225
Quatro coupe for 2 years & I love it. Granted, there are faster cars out
there, but no matter what you drive, there's always something
faster.I've owned many 2 seaters ( & yes i'm aware the coupe isn't a 2
seater so save your wise remarks). not all cars need to be fast to be
enjoyable & i enjoy mine.
Therein is the point of the TT. It's a car that anybody can feel good in,
providing they like the car and the image.
For the keener driver, they perform well within certain limits, and
certainly if you're law abiding, should be just fine.
For the more enthusiastic of us, and in some respects like the current crop
of BMW and Mercedes Benz equivalents, they feel somewhat castrated.
I can agree up to a point - the Mk.I was a very different beast, feel-wise.
With the extra power of a chip, however, even the Mk.II becomes a lot easier
It's a long way from being the best handling car on the planet, and, as you
say, there's the current handling trend of 8/10s.. 9/10s.. "where'd the road
go?" to contend with. That said, as a package, it holds together pretty
well. Provided you turn off the ESP ;o)
Maybe time to start a more general thread on best/sweetest/fastest cars,
handling-wise? One's that people have driven, that is - no magazine quotes!
Heh! But it's subjective, though. My own preference puts handling and ride
composure _way_ above power and linear performance, but this has been
tempered by my wife's age and inexperience behind the wheel in the UK
(insurance!). She did have a 5.0 litre, rear wheel drive V8 back in
California, which although was probably only in the low 200 PS class, or
maybe high 100s, had shed load of torque and was a proper old school ass-out
handler. I found it wayward in the wet . . .
Best handling machine I've driven? Difficult, because I always take time to
get into a machine, and harder still when you realise how expensive some
are. :( But it's either the mark one MR2, or the Lotus Elise. Should be
the Elise, but I have spent considerably more time behind the wheel of the
MR2! I've not explored the bosses' M5's handling limits . . . oddly enough
. . .
So at the moment, we're running the Ford Ka, which has handling qualities
way ahead of the donk . . .
I know what you mean about the original MR2 (although I've only been a
passenger in one) - the Elise, though.. if I'd been given the chance to
drive one around Hethel /before/ ordering the TT, I might have had a more
difficult choice ;o) The Lotus is better at coping with the poorer road
surfaces we have locally, making it a better all-rounder than the
Westfield/Caterhams, albeit at (much!) higher cost and lower outright
I'd also put the Ultima up there (although, again, I've just been a
passenger in one - but a passenger who kept an eye on the speedo to see the
awesome cornering speeds on quite bumpy country roads. Plus brakes that lift
you entirely out of the seat, even with a *correctly* adjusted 6-point
harness) Cost is, of course, a bit of a problem ;o)
The Midtec Spyder - another Lee Noble creation, but with a case of the
uglies - gets similar performance low-speed (<100mph) with a more Sevenesque
weight. The Minari is similar, but I've only tried that on a smooth track,
not the road.
In terms of "sweet" handling (not necessarily neutral, but with the driver
able to position the car exactly where he or she wants), I'd also include
the older Mini, and, perhaps surprisingly, the MGB.
Slow, yes, but you could position them both precisely on (e.g.) the entry to
a bend, know exactly what they were doing while going round it, and be able
to adjust the attitude at any point. The 205 GTi was famous for that as
well, with the 1.6 being considered a little "purer" than the 1.9 - the
larger-engined variant has a reputation for being faster, but less
dynamically adjustable (only been a passenger in the 1.9).
I guess what I'm saying is that you can have enjoyable handling without
necessarily aiming at perfection.
Haven't tried the Ka, but I'd imagine that it falls more in this sort of
category. This would make it quite an exception to many modern cars, that
effectively let you do what you want, then succumb to violent breakaway at
the limit, and often with little warning. Well, that's the excuse that
people seem to use most often ;o)
Talking of turbodiesels and quick cars. Well, talking of turbodiesels -
anyone know how much a 2.5TDI 140bhp 5-pot lump can be tuned up to just with
a chip? What about going to extremes - anyone know what the most anyone's
ever got out of that engine before, reliably? (Cue reply from Spider
calling me selfish for wasting everyone's time when I could have just looked
it up on google).
Sounds good - do you know if there was much of a fuel economy penalty?
Anyway, first things first - I haven't bought it yet, and even when I do, I
think it'll go at least a few months to a year before I bugger with it
(apart from silly little things like changing the oil).
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