Also many conventional automatics have a manual mode these days to try
to give the driver best of both worlds. I must say though that I
rarely use it except the odd occasion when I want to lock the car in
gear so that it won't change down. ...or when I'm accelerating in a
hurry so I can change up when I want but then put it in auto for
regular driving. The conventional manual box on my 3-series is
probably the worst I've ever used.
Which model 3 series? I have heard a lot about how bad the E36 manual
transmissions are supposed to be, but I have two of them (95 325i and 97
Z3) and they both shift flawlessly. Compared to many of the other
sloppy/floppy manual transmissions I've driven over the years these are
actually the best shifters.
I have not driven that model before. What specifically do you not like
about the shifting? "Like a truck" is not very descriptive... Is it
notchy? Hard to get from 2nd to 3rd in a hurry? Clutch engagement
Also, have you done anything yet to try and rectify the problem? Tried
using synthetic gear lube (as others have recomended)? Removed the CDV?
On 20 Jan 2006 03:08:24 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
"Try" being the operative word.
IMHFO, anything with a claim to performance, driveability and
'sportiness' that presents a torque converter as part of the package
deserves all the contempt that gets heaped upon it. And so do the
people who defend them. They are simply not serious drivers.
Thing is that modern epicyclic autos lock up the TC after every change, so
it effects performance and economy far less than of old. Which means the
advantage of an 'SMG' type transmission is somewhat eroded for a sporty
car with an auto function. I also wonder about the life of what is
essentially a synchromesh box having those gearchanges hammered through -
since this seems to be the appeal of them.
Now if they made a conventional manual with manual clutch which could also
have an auto mode for boring heavy traffic...
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *
Dave Plowman email@example.com London SW
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:26:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
Sure, but locking the TC is a crude and very poor substitute for the
variety of ways I can choose for the amount, timing and graduation of
torque applied to the drive train with a conventional clutch.
For me, it's about getting pleasure from driving, particularly low
cost forms of motor sport. Going further in that direction, the
satisfaction of using a dog-engagement, straight-cut gearbox is as
different from a synchromesh gearbox as *that* is from a TC/epicyclic
That's not to say that I want to commute around town in a dog 'box
I think I'd tend to trust the engineering. Sequential gearboxes have
been around for donkey's years.
Personally, I always wondered why no-one ever put a friction clutch in
front of an epicyclic gearbox.
Driven one of the recent adaptive autos?
...with ALPINA Switchtronic?
Except for drag strip launches and doing donuts there is no advantage in
a manual syncro 'box and clutch and lots of disadvantages
Even in fully auto adaptive mode these 'boxes have an almost spookily
prescient ability to be in the right gear and never, ever put shifts in
potentialy embarrassing places.
Steptronic adds instant and unmuffable sanity checked changes and with
Swichtronic your hands don't even have to leave the wheel...
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:19:28 +0000, Alistair J Murray
I wasn't aware that either of those allowed one to control "the
amount, timing and graduation of torque applied to the drive train."
In other words, complete control of engine speed and timing and the
"bite" of the clutch. You live and learn, I guess.
Gah - how many times...
All this carping of the supposed 'superiority' of manual shifting is a
point anyway. Already, some BMW models are not available with
conventional manuals any more, only with automatics or SMG.
Expect this trend to continue as BMW catches up with VW/Audi (and now
Porsche) on double-clutch (so-called "DSG") gearboxes.
As is evident, more and more people prefer some kind of automatic
shifting concept over conventional manual (I suppose mainly due to
increasing traffic congestion).
Let's not forget - the people who can afford to buy/lease BMW are
usually located in/around the world's chocked urban centres, as this is
where the high-paying jobs are.
The 'carping' doesn't refer to this thread in particular, just to the
general obsession with proving that only "real" enthusiasts prefer
manuals (conveniently ignoring the fact that autos, and especially SMG
& DSGs do have advantages over manual shifting in both shift times and
guaranteed shift precision).
Anyway, I'm not saying the demise of the conventional gearbox is
imminent, but that the trend is heading that way, sure.
I can imagine that, in a decade or so, DSG or SMG will the
standard/free, and a 'manual' gearbox will be an optional extra. More
than anything else, this will be decided by marketing and production
sourcing & efficiency criteria,
Gotta keep them shareholders happy. =)
Well the "SMG" isn't a sequential box - it's a regular box with a
computer controlled change gear on the outside. I would prefer BMWs
SMG if there was also a clutch pedal so one could clutch and de-clutch
however you wanted (if you wanted) but the actual gearchange was done
On 23 Jan 2006 06:01:48 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
That's kind of getting to my point, which is about the manner in which
you can operate the clutch. I don't mind a gearbox that automatically
changes what gear it's in when I tell it to, it's more that I want to
control how and when the clutch gets done.
An automatic in a BMW is pretty much a waste. Buy a Mercedes/Chrysler
if that's what you want. BMW shouldn't even MAKE a M3/M5 with a
slushbox. Big power + rear wheel drive + transmission shifts in the
middle of a curve = problems.
Basically, BMWs will happily run at least 200,000 miles with basic
maintenance. When something DOES break, it can get expensive,
especially at dealer rates; but things break much less frequently than
on other cars.
Which is why modern BMW's autos know about steering input and lateral
acceleration, amongst other things - no surprise shifts at the wrong moment.
An adaptive auto with Steptronic (or better yet ALPINA Switchtronic)
manual mode gives the best of both worlds.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.