1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Hey all,

I just picked up a 1997 LHS on Saturday for next to nothing as it had a Salvage Title. Cosmetically it's in mint+ condition and the engine/tranny seem usable at 111k miles. It was salvaged by the previous owner's Insurance because it was caught in flood waters. (the water rose in the car to, apparently, just between the radio and the HVAC judging by the waterline I found in certain areas of the car. The carpeting and lower cushions have been replaced, the engine fluids were all replaced, and the car sat in storage for approximately two years with occasional trips out for "Automotive exercise" but no electrical repairs were ever done.

What I mainly now have to deal with are those electrical issues. I've torn apart the lower dash and all wiring is clean and sound and there is virtually no corrosion anywhere in the vehicle. I found a couple fuses that looked dodgy and replaced them but have gone no further, partly because I've activated the alarm and can't seem to de-activate it.

I hit the driver side power door lock Saturday afternoon and noticed it didn't work so I hit the manual lock and closed the door...an hour later came back out and unlocked the door with the key and the headlamps started flashing, attempting to start the car caused it to die 2 seconds later. I've tried unlocking all doors and trunk with the key and this doesn't disable the alarm. I've unhooked the battery to no effect... and I don't have a remote to see if it even works. Where do I go from here to kill this d*mn alarm?

Other issues :

*The horn does not work (thankfully, given the alarm!) *Radio itself seems to work but no actual sound is heard *Power door switches do not work but when I activate one a clicking can be heard from somewhere in the dashboard. The Heat/AC blows warm air out the defrost vents only. You can control the fan speed but can not change where the air comes out at. *The dual power seats will move forward and backward but in no other direction.

All other electrical options seem to function fine.

I am a complete novice and would greatly appreciate any help with these issues. I am attempting to do a few repairs myself before turning it over to someone else.

Much thanks!

Reply to
G.Focker
Loading thread data ...

Yup, that's the alarm... :) It's possible that the vehicle didn't originally come with the alarm, and that was "added on", or somehow activated in the computer due to the flooding. First place I'd check would be to see if there is an LED light mounted to the center of the dashboard. Don't confuse the "sun sensor" with the LED light, as by the sounds of it you have the "premium" climate control unit (Digital temp readout on it with pushbuttons instead of 3 control knobs)? If the vehicle didn't come with the alarm originally, using the keys in the locks will do nothing, as the locks won't have the necessary sensors to detect the key turn.

Also, take a look in the trunk (easiest place to see). At the latch, on the lid, there will be two wire harness connectors if the vehicle came with the alarm, one for the power trunk release, and one for the key sensor... There would also be a "hood switch" located somewhere under the hood. I've never seen one, so I can't tell you where it would be located.

If it did come with the alarm system, the grounding of one of these alarm terminals SHOULD deactivate the alarm (short the two terminals in the wiring connector together in the trunk [Wires are Violet/Yellow and Black]). If it doesn't, then most likely your problem will be in the BCM (Body Control Module), which would need to be replaced. Can be found on passenger side, lower dash, with three large wiring connectors attached to one end...

Maybe bad relay? Hear a click when pushed?

Possibly corroded speaker coils? Who knows.

Would be the relays for the door locks. Should hear clicking in either direction. Most likely the system is functioning, just the door actuators are rusty or corroded and won't move.

If premium unit, probably needs replacing. These go bad often, many problems with them. Could also be linked to the BCM again, as the premium unit is only the interface, the BCM handles all the functions and temp control... If standard unit (3 knobs), it too may need to be replaced. Can be had VERY cheaply on eBay...

Guess of crusty or burnt motors, but that's anyone's guess.

Reply to
FeMaster

Yes, the LED is there - red - and angrily blinking at me. However, the keys do nothing in any lock. ...and, yes, I have the "premium" climate control.

Do all these terminals go directly to the BCM or do they pass through anything else along the way that might be at fault (like a relay)? Assuming the BCM is at fault here... I would imagine Chrysler wants a pretty penny (or several thousand pretty pennies rather ) for this item. Will one from a salvage yard work in it's place (assuming it's from a similar model year LHS)?

No, I don't seem to hear a click at all from what I can remember. Think it might be a bad relay in the fuse box?

I remembered my '93 Imperial had a powered amp in the trunk so I pulled back the trunk carpet in the LHS and found a similar beast. If this is faulty, I assume it might kill all sound from the radio, correct?

Hmm, I only hear clicking in one direction - i think when I press up on the switch. I do not hear it when pressing in the other direction. Another bad relay, perhaps? ...and if one of the two relays were bad would it prevent the other from working?

Okay, this interface was in contact with water and as troublesome as they seem to be under the best of circumstances, I'll start with it. I'll take a look on eBay and the like for a replacement.

Is there a separate motor for each control? (one for forwards/backwards, one for height, one for seatback tilt)?

Thanks.

Reply to
G.Focker

Further info:

I managed to get some computer codes using the Check Engine light.

I got a 12 (which I expected because the battery has been disconnected) and a #66. Haynes says this means "pcm is not receiving ccd bus signals" but that's entirely greek to me... The fact the alarm is still active may just be aggravating matters.

John

Reply to
G.Focker

Years ago, I had some problems with mine blowing hot air out the defrost vents. I believe what you're dealing with there is the fail-safe setting. I may be wrong, but I think what causes that is loss of communication between the BCM and the control/display head. I replaced my control head with one off ebay ($50) but continued to have that problem and the error code for i/o errors until eventually I just cleaned up the connections and it worked.

There is a diagnostic mode for that HVAC that is very easy to use, but of course you kind of need a manual to get what the codes mean.

Reply to
Joe

For the most part, they go directly to the BCM. The right door switch goes through a door connector to a splice, then to the BCM. The left door goes through a door connector, body connector, to the same splice as right door (splices two wires together), then to BCM. The trunk switch goes through a body connector then to the BCM. Seems the trunk lead has it's own terminal at the BCM connector, separate from the door leads.

Did you try to short the two leads on the trunk connector, as stated previously, without success?

You should be able to acquire a BCM from a similar year vehicle (though I think that it must be from either a '96 or '97 only, intrepid, LHS, Vision, Concorde), WITH the alarm system... Only reason I say that is, if the donor didn't have the alarm, you would have to pay Chrysler to hook it up to their scan tool to activate that function in the computer for the alarm to work...

On a side note, if you are seriously considering getting this thing going, you may want to check to see if the car has keyless entry capability... If the BCM is functioning properly, the keyless entry system should definitely disable the alarm... To find out if you have it (can't see why it wouldn't, considering it has the alarm), pop the top front cover off the dash, near the windshield. There are two clips on either side of the panel, then slide back towards you. If the car has keyless entry, there will be a black box with two wiring harness connectors coming out of the side if it, just to the right of the center of the dash, under this panel... Should be slightly smaller than the BCM if memory serves me correctly.

If you have the unit, once again, eBay would be a good place to get remotes for the car. Take the model# off the sticker on top of the unit and have you local Chrysler dealer look up what the model# of the remotes that you need is, then buy off eBay...

While I'm thinking about it, if that unit is there, try disconnecting the two plugs, and close all doors and see if the key sensors work this way. Also, see if the power door locks work now or not.

**** As a last resort, you SHOULD be able to disable the alarm by directly grounding pin #3 of the *BLACK* BCM connector. This should be a Light-Green with Orange tracer wire according to my service manual. You will need something thin and pointed to get into the backside of the connector. Run this to ground. This should disable the alarm. If it does not, then there is no helping you, as there must be something wrong with the BCM... This lead is what comes from each key cylinder in the two doors. There is NO reason (other than bad BCM) why this should not work...

If no click, probably bad relay... If it clicks, I'd guess corroded coils in the horns...

You would be correct. Premium sound system... Without the amplifier functioning, I'd assume there would be no sound. All sound signals route through this unit before going to the individual speakers...

Perhaps. There are separate relays for locking and unlocking. Also see the end of my long spiel above about the BCM and the keyless entry module.

There are a total of 4 motors. Front/back is a single unit. Recline (seat back) is another, and then there are separate front and rear height motors...

Reply to
FeMaster

CCD Bus is the main communications network for the vehicle. It consists of two wires, twisted together (a twisted pair), similar to like what you will find in a network cable (cat-5) cable that computers use for local networking (communication.)

The PCM is the Powertrain Control Module. This is the module under the hood that controls all aspects of the engine. Reads and interprets the output of all the vehicle sensors, and adjusts all the aspects of the engine for proper performance and functioning; to put it vaguely.

Service manual states that there are three possibilities for a code 66, but the main idea is that the PCM is not receiving any CCD Bus signals, but without a proper scan tool, you won't know the exact problem. A scan tool would narrow it down to, 1) not receiving at all, 2) not receiving from TCM (Transmission Control Module), or 3) not receiving from the BCM. I'm going to wager it's the BCM once again, but, I COULD be wrong...

Reply to
FeMaster

I think signs are pointing to the BCM. Last night I took it apart and opened it up to find water had reached the lower 3rd of the board and there was slight corrosion and a touch of rust on one of the components. It's impossible to say what damage there is that I CAN'T see or test. I'm going to pick up another BCM from a local salvage yard for $65 today and see what happens. It reportedly comes from another 97 LHS with alarm and should be a plug and play procedure, right?

John

Reply to
G.Focker

...and your help is GREATLY appreciated in this matter.

Yup, I shorted them without success of any sort.

Thanks! I'll peek under there tonight and see what I can find.

Okay, I cut a small wire and soldered bits of paperclip to each end, then stuck it in the slot of #3 of the black connecter running into the BCM (LG/Or wire) and then tried stick the other end into the ground slot on the Bone connector and various other metal surfaces and the alarm LED continued to angrily blink away at me... So, it sounds to me like a unanimous decision that the BCM is defective. I'll have the replacement in about 2 hours so we shall see what happens then.

John

Reply to
G.Focker

If they are the same year, and both have the alarm feature, there should be no reason why you can't just plug it in and go... After that, I'm betting that most if not all of your electrical problems will go away, possibly with the only exception being the temperature control unit.

The only thing they may hinder you at this point would be if either the PCM or the TCM were water damaged as well, but you won't know that until you can get the beast running.

Reply to
FeMaster

Maybe...maybe not.

Why not just touch up the solder on the board, change out any suspicious looking caps and resistors with like value and give it a shot? If you can't, perhaps and electronics-savvy pal? I did that to my '86 EFCS II module some time ago, and it functions as new still. Same goes for the old '70s "Lean Burn" feedback modules that people threw away by the gross.

Reply to
DeserTBoB

Okay, I grabbed a "new" BCM from a wrecked 97 Intrepid at the local savage yard for $65. I plugged it in and the alarm stayed off! The #66 CCD error has, also, vanished! :grinyes: I don't actually know if the old Intrepid had an alarm system but if it's something Chrysler can change later then no biggie at this point.

The salvage yard, also, gave me 3 relays essentially free and I replaced the suspicious looking ones.

So, now the alarm is off. My horn has also started working... I have an interior "chime" suddenly that I never knew I had, as well. I drove around the parking lot next door at around 10-15mph and the car seemed to respond fine.

Also, I plugged the ATC/HVAC back in and it still does not function properly. I did the ATC diagnostics test and it came back with error codes #23,24,32 and 36. I'm going to replace the ATC unit next and see what happens.

I do have one new issue I noticed, however, and I can't remember whether this was the case with the old BCM BUT...

The dash lights come on as expected when you turn on the headlights. HOWEVER, if you set the headlights control to "Auto" the dash lights do not come on with the headlights? Any ideas on this one?

Also, I haven't tried using the power door locks again since that's what triggered the lock out to begin with. Think it's safe???? :-D ...or should I wait until I get a remote.

John

Reply to
G.Focker

Provided the BCM was identical (with the three sockets on the end), then yes, if the alarm portion isn't active, it can be turned on later at any Chrysler dealership. There is at least one other option that they can toggle (there might be more, but these are the only two I am aware of) and that is the automatic door locks. Basically, once you reach a speed of about 10MPH, the doors automatically lock. I'm betting that your original BCM had this activated, but that the new one (since it's out of an intrepid) does not.

Good news so far! Did you replace the horn relay? While the horn doesn't rely on the BCM to function, it is connected to it for use with the alarm... Could have been the relay or the possibly the BCM creating enough of a draw on the line to not allow the relay to activate..

There is a slight possibility that the problem lies with the actuators and not the ATC unit, but this is pretty slim... I only say that because they would have been under water. They are pretty simple little devices from what I've seen. I have replaced the Recirculation actuator on my vehicle because of a broken gear. This particular unit doesn't have the feedback sensors in it, so it was just a small 12-Volt motor and gears. I don't know what the insides of the feedback kind look like, so I can't say for sure if there might be a problem there or not...

I'm not sure where you found the diagnostic procedure for the unit, but I'm going to assume that they also included what the error codes represent, so I won't bother listing that...

I'm not very familiar with the auto-headlamp circuit, but I will see what I can come up with. A quick thought, when the alarm was going off (before), were the parking & tail lights also flashing, or just the headlights? And, when the headlamps come on using auto, do the parking/tail lights come on? I'm betting the culprit will be another relay...

There is a park lamp relay under the dash that, if I am remembering correctly, only comes in vehicles that have the alarm system. They may have also come with those with the auto headlights, but I don't know for sure. I'm not even sure of the location of this relay to tell you the truth. The service manual says, "Left of Steering column rear of column cover". If you find it, let me know where it is. I've got to add this to my vehicle, as I'm attempting to install the factory alarm in my own vehicle. So far I've got the ignition kill and the flashing headlights... No horn or park lights...

I'm not going to give ANY advice here; I don't want to be held accountable... :-) Seriously though, they should function just fine, and I can't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to now disable the alarm, should it happen to activate...

Remote? I'm assume you found the box on top the dash? Bet your happy now! I LOVE my keyless entry. That's one of the reasons I'm trying to add the factory alarm function. It's a little risky, as I won't have any of the key sensors. I'm relying completely upon the remote. Yeah, I know, not a good idea, but I've got enough wiring to do with just getting the horn and parking lights to work with the alarm! ;)

Reply to
FeMaster

Hi...

Murphy's law says that when you're in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, the temperature is -40 degrees, and you're 'bout half starved is when you'll have lost your fob, or the batt's will be dead, or when it'll have come apart and the batteries will be gone, or.... you get the picture :)

Easy enough to be safe rather than sorry, though. If you're essentially do the job yourself, then just install a switch somewhere hidden... (inside a fender, in the air intake thingy [where the wipers are. can't see, but can reach your hand]) and connect it to what would normally be the door key switch.

And while I have you guys, if the op discovers what's letting the auto headlights turn on the lights, *without* turning on the dash lights, I'd love to know. Like to do it to my own on purpose :)

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

Yup... I get it. Actually, I upgraded to the premium BCM, from the basic unit, and the alarm is already activated in the unit, so every time I lock the doors with the remote, the alarm is active... When I first got the BCM, I was told that it came with the alarm active, but it didn't seem to me like it worked. I found one night when I was goofing around that it was. I had hit the remotes lock function (habit), despite the fact that the windows were down. When I returned to the car, I just reached in and pulled the handle inside to open the door (or pulled up the lock, I forget). When I opened the door, the headlights started flashing... To say the least, I was quite happy to find out that the alarm was active :)

I was considering this. I had read about this being done by others who added the factory alarm to their vehicle... Far easier than trying to wire-up both door locks and the trunk lock.

I have added the full-function headlight switch to mine as well. At the time, I had no idea why the unit I received (bought off eBay) had an "A" setting. Didn't know what it was. No that I know, I'm considering wiring that up too. It's really simple to tell you the truth. From what I see, it's a maximum of 3 wires. Two wires going to the "sun sensor", and a single wire going to the headlight switch.

I had read about some adding the headlight switch with "A"uto to their vehicle. The car already had the premium BCM, so the wire from the switch to the BCM was present in the harness. He didn't have the sun sensor if I remember correctly. He said that when he set it to Auto, that the dash lights were the only thing that came on, no headlights or parking lights... He called it his "Stealth Mode". He could see what was going on with the dash and stuff, but nobody outside the vehicle could see him coming. Interesting idea...

Reply to
FeMaster

He he.. my little grandson figures that when we go up to the cottage we should have the red led flashing, I should open the sunroof, he'll stick his head out and say "whoo whoo", everyone will think we're Mounties and get out of our way so we'll get there quicker :)

Someday he'll realize that his old grandpa always goes too slow even when there's no traffic at all :)

Kidding aside, the sun sensor has nothing to do with the auto headlights. That's used only for the auto temp controls, to decide if the sun's shining on you to put all the cool air out the dash vents, otherwise to share the cool air between the floor and dash vents.

Your auto headlight sensor is on the backside of the rear view mirror (you can see it only from outside the car)

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

It seems to me the BCM must have been screwing up the horn and the interior chimes as they were working "out of the box", so to speak, once the BCM was replaced.

Yes, ATC error codes #23 and #24 relate to the AC doors, which I'm assuming makes sense because it is currently non-operational and doesn't even have a belt. #36 seems to relate to the head unit being defective and considering it was under water, I assume will be dead. I took it apart and ran into similar corrosion/rust as seen in the BCM, so....I shall hunt down a replacement on eBay as no one local seems to have one except for the dealer at $200+.

As a side note, the dealer wants $700! for the power seat motors! I can buy a whole seat at the local salvage yard for $150 or hunt down the motors themselves (which is probably best as these leather seats are in rather good condition).

I'm thinking it must be another relay, as well, but I can't find which one.

When the alarm was going off before, only the headlights were flashing. On Auto only the headlights seem to come on, too. However, the Flasher activates all of the exterior lights so it must be a relay unrelated to that.

There are three or four relays of some sort under the driver side dash, tucked behind the fuse box. Sadly, my garage is rather narrow so it's hard to work there. I have to wait until the office next door clears out in the evening to bring the car out and tinker. It doesn't look like any of them are label at this point, though. :-(

There is, also, a box of relays under the hood, just above the wiper fluid bottle, IIRC, with several marked as if they pertain to lighting systems. I don't know about the relays in that box but when I first checked the fuses they all seemed fine. Of course any of those relays could be defective - if I only I knew which ones to check.

Well, I was brave and pressed it. No alarm! Looks like the alarm must be deactivated in this BCM which is just fine with me for now. When I hit the PDL in the drivers door, only right-side passenger doors locked/unlocked. The driver side doors don't seem to function, however, I think this might be a localized issue to each door. I can hear the motor spin in the left rear door, it just doesn't lock - and the driver door itself is deathly quiet so the motor there could just be defective. It looks like the motors would have been under water given their location anyway.

I was going to take a door panel off but I'm a bit confused about the armrest covers. Do those snap off in the LHS? It looked like the front of them want to pop-up but the rear seemed rather forcibly attached.

Anyway, if you find any info on a relay that might control the dash/rear lights when set to Auto that would be great.

Thanks, John

Reply to
G.Focker

Found it! The Park Lamp Relay is under the dash, behind/to the right of the fuse box, sitting below the Flasher Relay. It is Black with a yellowish connector plugging into it. There are four wires, two are pinkish, one is a lt. blue and one is black (with a yellow stripe I think).

Sounds to me like this is indeed the offending culprit I must replace to get parking lamps and dash lights working with Auto headlamps.

John

Reply to
G.Focker

Is it possible that your vehicle was flood damaged during the hurricanes last year? Just seems like a lot of the electrical parts are bad ...

Reply to
Bob Shuman

OK, a little clarification on the codes is in order...

- Code #23 indicates problems with the feedback sensor for the BLEND door. This is what the temperature control on a standard heat/AC system would move.

- Code #24 indicates problems with the feedback sensor for the MODE door. A better description, for understanding purposes, would be the "position" door. This controls where the air comes out of...

- Code #32 is a BLEND door stall failure... Not sure why this one is in there. Makes it sound like the door was working, and then quit. It's possible that this may have been set BEFORE the flooding ever occurred.

- Code #36 is ATC Head Communication Failure. Probably because the BCM was bad and it couldn't communicate with it?? Guess of course. Could just be that the whole ATC is junk.

Tell the dealer to take a hike! :) They can be had on eBay for a fairly good price. Do some comparisons, as there are some that just sell them used "in working condition", and other that sell rebuilt/repaired units that come with a short warranty...

OUCH! Yea, if the seats are good (and don't smell from being flooded), go with the motors. You may end up buying the whole seat anyway and stripping the motors from in at home. I've (thankfully) never had to deal with them, so I don't know if they detach as a whole unit, or come out separately.

Flasher, as in Hazard Flasher?

I've done some further reading, and this would be where the Park Lamp relay is located. There are two that I have come across in the book. There is the Hazard/Turn Signal Relay (Uses one relay for both somehow) and the Park Lamp relay. I take that back... It's called a "Combination Flasher". I guess it's not a relay for the hazards, but it does say that "the combo-flasher is BLACK in color for ease of identification." Yea, sure, aren't the relays black as well??

If there are others, besides those two, I have no idea what they are for at this point.

The Park Lamp relay has wiring colors as follows: Light-Blue, Black/Yellow, Pink/Red, and another Pink/Red...

I don't think at this point there should be a problem with any of those. Yours may differ from those in my '94 manual, but from what I see, the relays control the fuel pump, Auto-Shutdown, AC Compressor, Cooling Fans, Wipers, Starter, and Transmission.

I don't really know about the LHS door panels. I'm guessing that they would at least be similar. Trying to remember how I took mine off... Arrrh...

Screws under the speaker grill covers, screw in "pull-cup" on the door handle / arm rest, screw behind door latch handle. From there, lift to dislodge panel "hooks" on trim, and at top edge of door. Watch for wiring harnesser that are attached to everything... Door speaker is attached to panel, NOT the door itself. Also disconnect clip for the linkage to the door latch handle...

That's a start, just be careful so you don't break anything...

See above. I'm almost certain that the relay under the dash will be your problem...

Reply to
FeMaster

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.