1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Excellent! I see that in my previous reply I didn't need to give you the details, as you already have them... :) Now maybe you can help me... What's the best way to get at this without pulling the whole dash out like you have done?? :)

Thanks!

Yes, this is a flood vehicle - from the Marietta/Macksburg Ohio flood in September 2004. Water got part way up the lower dash between the radio and ATC. A salvage yard cleaned it up, replaced carpet, etc but didn't touch the electrical issues and then it sat in someone auto garage for 2 years.

Luckily, other than a bad BCM, it's all been tracking down and replacing relays at this point to get major systems working.

I imagine if you stick your head under the drivers side dash you might be able to see this sucker peeking out. It's attached via a screw to the same spot where a plug holds the lower corner of the fuse box in place. I haven't removed mine yet but it looks like you can just unscrew it, unclip it and be off with it.

John

Yes, I've noticed this. Looks like you can get a rebuilt one for $59 plus shipping.

From what someone else said, it sounds like all the motors are on a frame that can be detached from one seat and re-attached to mine. I still find it horribly "coincidental" that all the same motors died on each seat, leaving the same working motor behind (forward/backward). I'm not surprised they would be water damaged but what are the odds of them being damaged in exactly the same way? :-)

Yeah, I've just read a small section in the manual that deals with that. It does appear that they can be swapped out as a unit...

That does seem a little strange... Maybe you should see if you can access the wiring harness that plugs into the back of the control unit on the side of the seat. Maybe the controls are crusty, and for some reason it just happens that the ones that aren't working are the same for both sides, maybe something to do with the construction or something...

If you pull the seat, I can give you pin continuity check data for testing the switch assembly... Might just save a little money if it turns out to the controls instead...

Sounds good... It's raining like mad today, and the garage is occupied by another "project", so it'll have to wait for another day... :)

If you finally do get to it, and get it, grab the part number for me, as I'm sure that my vehicle won't have this relay. Probably doesn't even have the wiring for it.. Fun fun! Another wiring job at hand!

How's the repairs going. It's been a few days, thought I'd inquire...

Thanks for asking!

Since I last wrote, I tracked down a Park Lamp Relay for $5 and installed it. Parking lights and dash lights now activate when turning on Auto headlights. I, also, tracked down an Amplifier for $18 to replace the one in the trunk - and the radio and all speakers function perfectly!

Earlier tonight I was playing around with the power seat switch to attempt to diagnose whether it's the switch or the motors that are defective. I'd come to the conclusion that it was the motors but when I plugged the connector back in, the seat back motor sprang to life. I'm now thinking it must be corrosion in the connectors so I'll attempt to clean those in the next day or so and see what happens.

Meanwhile I have a rebuilt ATC on order.

So, let's see...

So far, working/replaced: BCM several relays Alarm Horn Auto Headlight/Park Lights Power Door Lock switches new battery

Partially working: Seats

Needed: ATC (and further checks of the HVAC system once that's installed) Power Door Motor for Driver side door Drivers Side seat Belt Remote

Once I get those working I need to go over the car thoroughly and check each option to verify it functions properly, then I'm going to have to find a decent mechanic to check out the engine and transmission (Previous owner said it slipped into Neutral twice within 400 miles of driving. Judging by the scent, I almost think it has the wrong transmission fluid in it). The AC will probably have to wait until Spring, however.

As a trivial side note: On my 1993 Imperial, if you lifted the door handle of a locked door the interior lights would come on. I'm wondering if the LHS should do this, as well?

John

Excellent news...

I tracked down the location where the park-lamp relay goes (thanks to you description,) and as I suspected, its's not there, nor do I see any wiring for it. Looks like another wiring job for me :(

Well, that just might be some good news for you!

Hope that clears up your control issues. Those actuator motors are a bitch to find. I was told by local Chrysler dealer that the recirculation actuator (the one I needed) was $65, and even then they couldn't be sure it was still available until they called about it. I guess it comes from a third-party manufacturer, yet can only be purchased through the dealer (or a scrap yard)... On top of that, they are bitch to get at to replace, though might not be too bad for you, since you said your already had the lower dash ripped apart/out.

I wouldn't doubt that it is. Up until recently, the proper fluid was only available through the dealer, and I can't see that happening, considering the cost of the stuff through the dealer!

I don't believe this is the case; I haven't seen one of these style cars do this yet. It MAY turn on when unlock the doors with the keys, as the only electrical connection is the one attached to the key switch for the alarm. I can confirm, however, that with the keyless entry, when you unlock the doors with that, the interior lights DO come on...

Hi John...

Congrats on the work so far; good show!

Just tried the interior lights on my 94 for you, maybe it's close enough.

Lifting the handle while locked does nothing - no alarm, no lights.

Unlocking with the key does nothing either. Lifting the handle unlocked does nothing. Not until the door is actually physically ajar do the lights come on.

On the other hand, unlocking with the fob does turn on the interior lights.

Take care.

Ken

Yes, the PLR seems to be one of those things that was rare enough they didn't automatically run wiring for it. None of the salvage yards in my area even had a car with one in it. I ended up going to ebay for it.

Yes I was skimming some info about all this and it doesn't sound fun at all. It seems like one area where Chrysler could have made it a little easier to service. :-(

Yes, and these transmissions seems particularly touchy if the discussions around allpar.com or dodgeintrepid.net are anything to go by....

Okay, probably just not a feature they carried forward from the previous generation.

John

Thanks! So far, it's been a lot less painful than I feared it might be...

Thanks for the confirmation. As I'd mentioned in my previous response, I guess it's just not an option they carried forward to the LH series. When I finally get a remote, I suppose I won't miss it. :-)

John

Would I be able to get the part# from you? I'm not seeming to come across the relay on eBay myself. Is it just a standard relay like you'd find out under the hood?

I can agree with that! I've done the heater core in a '86 Dodge Lancer, and even back then when there wasn't so much as far as electronics goes, it was a major pain to get the "Heater Box" out of the car to replace the core... I'm not sure if you have to actually remove the unit to change any or all of them, but in any case, I'm sure it's not going to a fun job should it need be done.

I'll attest to that! When I bought my car, it drove perfectly. About

2-weeks later, it started having the clutch shudder, when the Torque-converter clutch tried to engage. I narrowed it down to the idea that the wrong type of trans fluid was put in. Ended up doing a full flush, so I pulled the pan and changed the filter at the same time. Talk about expensive... $80-some dollars just for the fluid! (bought 3-gallons at about $27 a piece) At the time, the dealer was the only place to get the fluid.

After the flush & filter change, I couldn't even get the car to drive. Would go into reverse fine, but did not want to go into drive. Would take anywhere from 10 seconds to 5 minutes to engage... Man was I not happy!

Pulled the pan again, and removed the valve body & solenoid pack (which is INTERNAL to this transmission, can only be accessed by removing the valve body). I flushed the solenoid pack as best I could with carb cleaner, completely dismantled the valve body and cleaned that with carb cleaner. Neither looked like there was a problem, nor excessively dirty (there was a little darkness, like possible fine metal particles), but otherwise was in good shape.

Put everything back together, put another new filter in (better quality one this time around), and the SAME problem.... Took it to a tranny shop, so they could scan the codes. Pointed to an internal mechanical failure! No repair, but offered to install a rebuild for $2800.00 Yeah, I didn't pay that much for the whole car!

To make a longer story short, I had parked the car for about 6 months, while trying to figure out what to do with it. I got tired of driving around my rusty piece of crap, and decided that if the tranny is dead anyway, I just going to drive it as is, what was it going to hurt, It needed to be replaced anyway. Fired it up, and it has driven flawlessly ever since... No clue why letting it sit made it work, but I'm NOT complaining! :-)

For the record - Mine doesn't. I tried it.

I didn't find any directly listed on ebay either... What I did was find a few people parting out their LHS/Intrepid/Concorde and asked them if they had the PLR and what they'd sell it for. I'll try to get you the part number the next time my head is under the dash again. lol It's basically the same size as the flasher/turn signal relay that shares that cubbyhole under the dash.

Now on to more dire stuff. I swapped out the ATC head with one from a

94 LHS and came up with the same errors as before - #23, 24, 32, 33, and 36. I can control the fan but only hot air comes out of the vents near the windshield.

Can I get some detailed help in troubleshooting these errors? The data I've found so far seems too vague for me to coherently follow and I honestly am not sure what I'm looking for under the dash - The Blend and Mode Actuators or some such. Even some pics would be greatly appreciated. My Haynes manual is useless in this area. This seems like the first issue I've hit that is NOT going to be such an easy/quick fix.

Much thanks!

John

John

Hi John....

This may be helpful ?

Might save you a little troubleshooting time... guess Chrysler wanted to save a foot or so of wire; all the door motors have one common wire; they switch this between B+ and ground to reverse directions. A side effect of that is that only one door can be operating at a time. Guess it happens quickly enough that we don't notice. But it makes me wonder... if the first chosen to move doesn't, does that mean that errors will be returned for all? Dunno, worth thinking about, seeing one of yours is returning "stalled"

Take care.

Ken

OK. I'll see what I can come up with. I'd still appreciate a part number when you get the opportunity, thanks..

The ATC codes are stored in the BCM. They are permanent, like the BCM codes, until cleared. According to the service manual, you will need to pull power from the BCM to reset the codes. It indicates that the battery connection should be removed for 10 minutes, though from my experience it usually takes a little longer. Once reset, give it another go and see if you are still getting the same codes.

I'll see what I can get for you, but it won't until Monday afternoon that I can go into any detail here. The manual makes reference to troubleshooting through the use of the scantool, which I'm sure you don't personally have access to...

I'll take a look at the wiring diagrams and what-not, and hopefully through that we'll be able to test out the door motors. I see that each of the units you are having issues with have 5-wires a piece (unless that changed before the '97 model year).

I'll also try to get some scans of the heater box, and what the actuators look like for you...

In the mean time, there is a WHITE, 10-wire, connector somewhere near the lower right side of the heater/AC box. This is the common connector that runs between each heater/AC door motor, and the BLACK connector on the BCM. Check this WHITE connector for crusty/dirty connections.

While we're waiting, I'll comment. The a/c mode, temperature, and recirc dampers are controlled by 3 stepper motors. You probably know that. Two of them (temp and mode) are on the bottom of the a/c box, right in the middle of the car. They may have gone under water. QUESTION - when you do diagnostic mode, do those motors move? I mean, does air blow out of other vents, not just the defrost? They should cycle when you run diagnostics, and air should move to different vents. I am too lazy to look at my manual, but you can spot the mode door easily enough. It's the one with a lot of cams hooked to it to move multiple dampers. The temperature motor just moves one damper.

They're not all that expensive, or at least compared to the front engine cradle mounts, 8 simple hunks of rubber for $50 each = $400. They're cheap compared to that.

Sidebar to this "flood car" story:

The California Dept of Motor Vehicles and the Los Angeles County Sheriff have put out a bulletin about scam artists selling "near mint" fairly new cars that were submerged by Katrina in and around New Orleans. Since these are all one and two year old cars when they were submerged, they all have the same basic problems that we've seen here, and worse.

According to DMV, the scammers are retitling the cars in other southern states with lax record keeping and/or lack of salvage titles BEFORE trying to move them to California for sale mostly on "sled lots" with shady operators in poorer/more crime ridden areas of LA and the county. The retitling hides the "salvage" status, since many southern states don't have such a thing as a "salvage title," and then they're trucked to California and the Northeast to try to get higher prices. Caveat emptor. The problem here is that none of this is really illegal, except that most dealers will try to hide the car's history as much as possible, which can be prosecuted as fraud. Louisiana has one of the loosest and worst kept vehicle records systems in the nation, so tracing these waterlogged trashmobiles is difficult, if not impossible, even with Carfax.

One thing I'd think they'd have a real tough time getting rid of...that smell. Can't ya smell that smell???