2000 T&C brake line broke.

I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due to undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience I had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it broke when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I hope the other hose was inspected also Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get out of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work on to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3 years Its not a gimmick, its a procedure

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

----- Original Message ----- From: "maxpower" Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM Subject: Re: 2000 T&C brake line broke.

The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes, or perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace all brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish since they don't have the proper tool.

Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their automotive engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?

My head is still spinning..

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I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due to undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience I had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it broke when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I hope the other hose was inspected also Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get out of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work on to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3 years Its not a gimmick, its a procedure

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

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Thanks for the info. I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the other one is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do that. I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going to be a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about. Maybe I will be surprised. Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that many consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road salt, dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the undercoating and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.

Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got on the driver caliper -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring. There are only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.

The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in brakes, and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently Chrylser/dodge/plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools to thwart private garage type work.

The procedure with the scan tool is just a mater of pushing a few buttons to actuate the solenoids and pump to remove the trapped air.

Maybe I will be surprised.

undercoating

I agree. The vehicles come from the factory with rust protection already on the vehicle, so the dealers that sell it now call it soundproofing, A total rip off as far as I'm concerned, That stuff has been known to do more damage once it is applied, it traps moisture and causes rusting at a faster rate

How did the brake fluid get on the caliper if the hose that blew is under the drivers seat behind everything? And a small amount wont hurt anything, Wash it off with brakes clean. If it were a wheel cyl that blew out with a drum brake system I would replace the shoes due to total saturation of the linings. And no it wouldn't be necessary to replace all linings

-- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all

I only work on Chrysler Products so I cant answer if the other Manufactures use this type system. It isn't made by Chrysler it is made by Bendix so there may be others out there using this application

I was just asking the question about the brake pad. I don't see any REASON for the brake pad to have gotten any fluid on it at all. BUT I can see that shop might tell me that it did, and that I would need to get new brake pads.

Buts it worse than that. I got a phone call today that the master brake cylinder was leaking, and NO mention of the flexible tube having a hole it it. the trusted shop I took it too originally (and I called him back after listening to the voice mail to make sure) said the line/hose was broken, and that he didn't see any reason for the master brake cylinder to be replaced.

So the plot thickens. Wow, I am just torn over the diagnostic fee I am going to PAY that didn't include the leaking HOSE, I am not so certain the brake cylinder is bad. Guess its time for a third opinion at a different Dodge/Chrysler 5 Star shop... my original shop says he sees no way the brake cylinder is involved... So there is a learning process for me.

So the brake line that they say was leaking isnt and now its the master cyl? Take your vehicle somewhere else, It sounds like the circus has just started selling tickets.

This isn't true. The OTC Genisys scanner will bleed ABS brakes in the year vehicle you have. I am sure other scanners will also. Granted, the OTC tool isn't your $99 toy that you buy at Autozone, but it is not out of the question for a professional auto repair shop to purchase. And it is not manufactured by Chrysler or sold by them. For a time MAC Tools was OEMing the OTC scanners, I don't know if they still do, but you can call OTC and they will sell you one or send you to someone who will.

Ted

Hey, its more comical than THAT. The car has 76K miles on it, The 'report' that I received says i need to have "a fuel injection service,

30K major maintenance service, trans fl uid flush (fluid is black) -- Customer has decline d all repairs at this time."

The major maintenance's have been performed, the money vacuuming of my wallet isn't needed, and the tranny fluid is red, and was changed at 35k and

65K. I think the shop looked at some other car NOT mine. But its not there anymore. I paid my $29.32 and got it to a different Chrysler shop.

Their is a recall on the heated leather seats, and boy, am i glad I didn't allow them to get started on THAT.

Thanks, I just sometimes get the feeling that customers are looked at more as a 'mark' than as a resource to be taken care of. well ahem, taken? .... LOL

I feel the same way every time I pay my electric bill or go to the doctors or fill my truck up with gas

So, there was another part rubbing against the brake line (flexible part) and evidently wore the metal thin enough to let the pressure blow out. Now I am being told that i still must replace the master brake cylinder, as it may have dirt, or the mbc may have been damaged as the brake fluid reservoir is dry, and i don't want to cause inadvertent damage to the antilock brake components. Oh Joy!!!

I am doomed!!!

Necessary evils? Or are we [consumers] just too easily turned like lemmings toward the sea??? See my reply to myself about must replace master brake cylinder - mbc!

I would flush the master thoroughly and try it, unless the cyl is inexpensive enough that the labout to do that would be half the cost of the master. The vehicle was not run long with no fluid, right???

I ended up probably driving the vehicle approximately 18-20 miles from the time the line broke. all braking was done with the parking/emergency brake. There was NO braking with the brake pedal. Well, I should say that I sort of tapped on the brake pedal to make sure my son (who was following me) knew I was slowing down with the parking brake.

And I decided to replace the master brake cylinder as well. I think I am being overly cautious but I don't want to mess up the antilock brake system with dirt/debris/air and have a greater expense. Its just a gouging. Sort of like $3.00 a gallon gasoline. Here we come!!!!