300C vs Monaro vs Jag S

Is the Monaro the same as the Pontiac GTO? The GTO is a relabled Holden.

Correct, the Holden/Vauxhall is the Pontiac GTO, though I don't know how many changes are made in the tramsition, other than the location of the steering wheel. Probably only few.

All General Motors, innit?

DAS

The styling of the GTO doesn't strike anything in me. Haven't seen very many on the road but perhaps the styling will grow on me. As for the 300C I wonder what it was about the ride that the reviewers didn't like. I like the ride of mine and with 9,000 miles on the odometer there are no squeeks or anthing of the sort in the interior. This is one solid well-built car.

You'll be happy to know that according to a news report I just heard it took top honors for safety in new tests.

| > All General Motors, innit? | >

| > DAS | | The styling of the GTO doesn't strike anything in me. Haven't seen very | many on the road but perhaps the styling will grow on me. As for the 300C I | wonder what it was about the ride that the reviewers didn't like. I like | the ride of mine and with 9,000 miles on the odometer there are no squeeks | or anthing of the sort in the interior. This is one solid well-built car. | |

The Pontiac GTO, the last I checked, is selling worse than their Pontiac Aztec model.

Perhaps the fact that the reviewers are British, reviewing two vehicles built for British roads, and the 300C is built for American roads, which I would assume (having never been to Britain) are quite different????? As for the GTO - it isn't, it can't, and it never will be a GTO (there is more to a GTO than just pasting three letters on a car). RP

Which is a crying shame, because it's the closest thing to a Real Car(tm) that Generic Motors has offered in the US for quite a while, with the possible exception of the C6.

nate

General Motors - Drifting Lackadaisically In The Vague Direction Of Improvement, We Gradually Catch On. Our Products Could Be Better, But Hey, They're Better Than Before.

The only problem with this highly representative corporate slogan is that it's REAL damn tough to fit on a seatbelt pushbutton unless you use a

*super* tiny font. So they stick with "GM - Mark of Excrement" or something similar.

Wallows, rides like a "boat". Also inability to turn off electric aids for testing performance limits (which, I think, won't bother most 'ordinary' drivers).

I was looking for a writeup on the website

I expect it's too recent. Maybe they don't give detailed TV programmenotes, concentrating on the printed magazine. Clicking on a 300C review failed to bring up a useful page.

But there are some nice pics:

DAS

It sure doesn't "ride like a boat".

While the GTO is a decent car, it has some things going against it. First of all, it is rather pricey. Also, it looks too much like a Cavalier on steroids for its intended market, which is more into the "boy racer" treatment with fake hood scoops, etc. Also, the GTO has a tiny trunk for such a big car.

The Aztek is horribly ugly, at least to most people, but with the big rebates and not-too-high sticker, it is a good buy for how roomy it is. I have two friends who own Azteks. Both are kind of embarrassed to be seen driving them, but they bought them because they were a good value.

It'd be helpful to know whether they tested the NAFTA or the BUX ECE model of the car. The suspension and braking tests required for ECE type approval (which, in turn, is required of all new cars sold in the EU) are absent in North American safety standards, and NAFTA models are (still!) tuned for more of the proverbial "Boulevard ride" compared to export models.

Are you sure you want me to respond to your comment? I think it was you who was rather generally scathing about my posts.

DAS

Makes no nevermind to me whether you choose to do so or not.

Don't take it personally; I treat all stupid posts the same way regardless of who's responsible for them.

Yep, GM completely blew it on the GTO. Its barely distinguishable from a Grand Prix. Great mechanically and performance-wise, but the GTO name needs style to go with it or its nothing.

It probably does "ride like a boat" compared to the Monaro and Jaguar. The last time I was in the UK (it's been a few years, but I doubt much has changed) the roads in the countryside were very well maintained and smooth, but often twisty, and fun. On the other hand, many parts of the U.S. have pot holes, rough expansion joints, etc. but go mostly in straight lines. Therefore, the 300 suspension may be "better tuned" for North American roads, but compared to most European cars, it probably "rides like a boat." The solution, of course, is to build 300's with somewhat stiffer suspension for the European market. To my knowledge, there are no plans to build right hand drive 300's, so they sell only a handful in the UK, no matter how well the suspension works. Someone please post if I am wrong and they ARE building right hand drive 300's.

For all it's faults, terrible visability and general uglyness, the 300 does not ride like a boat. Quite the contrary it has extrodinary handling. The 300C is a Mercedes E Class with a huge Chrysler engine and heavier components. When I test drove the 300 and the 300C they stuck to the road like glue. I test drove a BMW and the Acura TL on the same day and neither could compare, the 300C was in a completely different class. I only wish that Chrysler would offer a more attractive body style with properly sized windows and call it an Imperial or New Yorker or something. I'd love to have a car that drove like a 300 but also had a rear window that was large enough that you could parallel park it. BTW I previously compared the

300's visabilty to a submarine, that's unfair to the new Virginia class attack subs that have just been launched. The Virginia class subs have done away with the periscope and replaced it with digital displays. If Chrysler would add a good digital display (I think Lexus has one in an SUV) they could fix their design mistake the the tiny windows.

They do... its called 'Magnum.' :-)

The more Magnums I see, the better they look. The low rakish look WORKS with the Wagon body lines much better than with the notch-backed profile and big-mouth grille on the 300.

I do like the Magnum better than the 300, but it's a station wagon. If there was a sedan version of the Magnum I'd be interested.