Discontinued Chrysler models

Didn't the Opel Kadett compete with the Fiat 128, say?

But in the low end of the market, wouldn't price be the primary factor in a purchase? The first maker to go to fwd, if more expensive, would be at a great disadvantage.

It's amusing how you continually attempt to argue for what you figure must be, even when it directly contradicts what *is*.

DS

Once a Lloyd, always a Lloyd!!!

Thats is preceisely where I, as an owner who likes to do his own work, see the biggest differential between most FWD cars vs. rear-drive. The Chrysler LH series and other FWDs that use longitudinal engine layouts are a partial exception. The longitudinal engine makes a lot of the routine stuff (plugs, wires, belts, timing belts, etc) as easy as a rear drive. But the big maintenance (front suspension, driveline) costs and particularly labor are still greater on a FWD car. And on some other FWD cars (Northstar Cadillacs spring to mind) the routine maintenance is a nightmare also.

See the previous post about large car sales subsidizing small car sales.

I question that. My recollection, is that circa 1973, a mid-range car could be had for $2k-$3k, and middle-incomes were in the $20k-$30k per year range (rounding numbers). So 10% annual income is in the ballpark for a new car in the early 70s.

Today, a mid-range car costs $20k, and mid-range incomes are sure as heck not close to $200,000.

On the basis that your figures are approx correct, either the US are or were very exceptional but I don't think in many places did a car cost only 10% of income. Not now and not then.

I should have stayed in the US when I first visited in 1973. I was very tempted anyway, by other factors, such as the sand and sun of Florida...

DAS

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Maybe. And the point you are getting to is?

I remember the discussions and commentaries and FWD scored on space, compactness of mechanicals (no drive train to rear)

DAS

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I thought Florida was in the US?

mike hunt

Dori Schmetterl>

tempted anyway, by other factors, such as the sand > and sun of Florida...

It is, but Dori isn't. Look at her email address.

Correct, he (despite the name) lives in London. He was tempted to tear up his return ticket to England when bathing in the ocean at Miami Beach...and having use of a family friend's Oldsmobile 88(?), a car for which I needed binoculars to see one end from the other...

And now I find out that cars purportedly only cost 10% of average income in the US in those days, something I still find hard to believe but accept till I see evidence to the contrary.

DAS

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Sorry I assumed the gender was female. Reminds me that years ago I worked with a guy who was named after his father, who was also from your part of the world, but did move to the states. His name was Laurie.

Pre-CAFE, why would a maker have offered a model it didn't make money on?

Many reasons. To lure buyers to their brand so that when they move upscale to a larger car, they'll stick with the brand, for one reason.

Its also not necessarily that the small car is sold at a LOSS- it may just be sold at such a small profit that it couldn't keep the company afloat (and couldn't be engineered/built to the level that it is) without being propped up by the more lucrative full-size car segment.

No problem, no offence taken....this confusion happens every now and then.

Our son has a more obviously male name -- remember the ending of the song A Boy Named Sue?...

(Fortunately I was never involved in brawls.)

:-) DAS

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I don't know about the average income but $2000-3000 for a mid range car is wrong. A 73 Plymouth Satelite was about $3000 with V8 and you had to pay extra for AT and AC. Realistically, a mid range car with commonly purchased equipment was over $4000.

Somewhere in the bowels of my files, I have a sales receipt for a 1973 v8 Plymouth Satellite sold in September of 1972, equipped with air, PS, PB, PB, Lighting Package, and about everything else you could get short of power windows and seats. It came in at around $3200, and with dealer incentives the bottom line out-the-door price was right at $3000. It was really an upper-end mid-range car, about the only thing that could still be considered "mid range" would have been a 400 or 440 engine instead of the 318 and those power windows and seats. Amazingly, a 440 only cost you about $100! I don't remember what the PW and seats would have been, but probably not $200 combined. Based on all that, I'd say that $4000 would be the transition between "mid" and "high end" cars in '73.

I still have the car, too... 463,000 miles and I drove it to work this morning :-)

Ford made money in 2003 and so far in 2003. you can search the NY Stock Exchange site for the figures. ;)

mike hunt

brad9876 wrote: