freon

No problem. The EPA supplies a whole list of acceptable alternative refrigerants at;

Many states have their own licensing requirements, some only require the purchaser to have the "609" certification. Check the laws in your state.

There are restrictions on -any- substance introduced into a mobile (automotive for highway use) air conditioning system. Fill your AC system with Lime flavored Jello, it -still- falls under the EPA rules, no exceptions.

All substitute refrigerants are required to use individually unique service fittings, this helps eliminate cross contamination during recovery and recycling. Had the rules been more diligently followed over the last 15 years, the equipment requirements for the people and businesses who legitimately service automotive AC systems would be a whole lot less and the costs to the consumer a whole lot lower.

I've never seen a leak detector, R-134a type or any other used to recharge a system. I think it's entirely reasonable to contact the refrigerant manufacturers listed in the EPA SNAP list to see if they have available adaptors to convert your R-12 manifold and gauge set to use with their product. If you live in the United States, be advised, it is illegal to use hydrocarbon based refrigerants such as Envirosafe (ES-12a) in any mobile air conditioning system.

Please don't contribute to making things worse than they already are.

Tony,

There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a

500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts and labor.

Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.

Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally, there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone. Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out. EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate it.

Bullshit.

Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something, in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13 to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you claim.

Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.

Why? Just use R12. Sure, it's more expensive than other compounds, but it is what the system is designed to work with, you don't need that much of it, and it's the least problematic choice for a system meant to take R12.

If you manage to cobble together such a device, you will do a great deal of damage to your A/C system. You will also very likely injure yourself severely. A/C service is dangerous and requires detailed knowledge of exactly what and what *not* to do.

AC was not working when I purchased the car. PO was told Evap coil was leaking. I can't get an AC shop to work on it this time of year, as it wil require a labor intensive removal of the dash. The system must be completely empty by now, so I do not feel I will be releasing freon into the atmosphere. I want to determine exactly where the leak(s) are. If it's the coil, I will get it repaired or replaced thru my local ac shop. I'll do thr RR myself, then bring the car back to him to have it properly, amd legally refilled.

This is why I want the proper adapter hose to get leak detector into the system. I don't want to start pulling good working parts, only to find out the leak is somewhere else.

Thanks again,

Tony

To correct your ignorance and you may want to click on the link go to the technical link and read the EPA authorization on a direct replacement.

I was not talking about the stuff on EBAY most of it is crap and contains contaminates along with being illegally imported from Mexico where it is still made. If you consider EBAY as your guide buyer beware.

I am licensed and certified Universal and Automotive I show you mine if you show mw yours.

Another link for you.

More to inform you

Some more reading to help you

To really help you

The link provides the thread size and fitting type. There is a lot more such as re labeling with proper color codes for the refrigerant type.

Link says "Freeze 12 is EPA acceptable for mobile applications subject to the use conditions applicable to vehicle air conditioning". What part of the use conditions have you forgotten from the certification you claim to have? What part of "Every single refrigerant requires unique service fittings, appropriate hose materials and identification labels" is hard for you to understand?

"Direct replacement" (or "drop-in") has a legal meaning: it means a refrigerant, other than that for which a system was designed, that may legally be installed into the system with no system changes. Legally, Federally, there is NO refrigerant other than R12 that may legally be introduced into an R12 A/C system without installing barrier hoses, refrigerant-specific service fittings, and refrigerant retrofit callout labels. None. Not your Freeze-12 stuff, not FRIGC, not any of the other EPA acceptable refrigerants, and certainly none of the unacceptable ones. Therefore, your assertion that Freeze-12 is a "direct replacement" is simply incorrect.

There are enormous stockpiles of genuine, clean, uncontaminated, US-made R12 from before the manufacturing ban. That's most of what's being sold on eBay; US Customs is very good at catching Freon smugglers.

So am I. s.608 and s.609, bud. Not that s.609 (MVAC) means anything; anyone with 15 minutes and $15 can take the open-book test online and get a 609 card.

As far as your beloved Freeze-12: It's nothing but R134a with a proportion of R142b added in as a crutch for oil miscibility. Its heat carrying capacity is poorer than that of R134a, which in turn is poorer than R12. There is no reason to mess with this ridiculous crap; a properly-done R134a conversion will be more satisfactory and less expensive.

Always ready to spread misinformation and half-truths, as it seems.

demonstrate

Don't waste your time on him, Its an ego thing that he has. Do like most people do here and that is to ignore his stupidity

Actually, Daniel is correct on this one. Conversions from R-12 directly to anything other than 134A are technically illegal, although it appears that was an accidental consequence of the wording of some federal regs. Or at least they used to be that way. HOWEVER, the legality of it is not really relevant in my opinion. Coasty never said they were legal, and Dan just basically changed the subject.

Here's what the OP should do. Go far away from here, and take this question to aircondition.com forums. People over there just live for this question. There really are many functional replacements for R12, however illegal to convert. Each one has different pluses, but they all probably work okay. And you can buy them, although you will have to get certified to do so. Becoming certified is pretty easy. Actually it's real easy. Well, really, all they want is the test fee.

I hear propane works really well.

JUST KIDDING GUYS!! *^)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Maybe I missed something in what was being said there, but apparently in my state, there are absolutely no licensing requirements for 134A. Anyone can walk into any auto parts store and buy it just like they would an oil filter. I assumed it was that way in most other U.S. states. Apparently not? (or am I mis-reading something said earlier?)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

That's not correct.

1) Conversions from R12 "directly" to ANYTHING (including R134a) are illegal. _EACH AND EVERY_ approved refrigerant has its own fittings (which must be *permanently* installed on a retrofitted system; removable adaptors don't cut it), usage conditions such as barrier hoses for most of them, and labelling requirements. There is NOTHING aside from R12 that can legally be introduced into an unmodified R12 system.

2) There are lots of legally approved automotive refrigerants.

Thanks advice taken.

Entirely possible. In Wisconsin and I suspect a few other states with draconian laws one needs a state license in order to purchase R-134a or R-12. The selling vendor (NAPA CarQuest, etc) has to have a copy of the license on file in case the state checks. I can go to Michigan, Illinois, Indiana and buy R134a right off the shelf at Walmart. The Wisconsin license amounts to nothing more than another tax on the business owner.

It is. But since there are exceptions, the OP is best served making himself familiar with whatever requirements there are in

-his- state.

I remember back when R-12, R-22 and R-134a were advertised in the circulars in the Sunday paper, there were a few states listed as "sales are restricted," Wisconsin and (IIRC) Florida were at least two, and since Kalifornia never saw a repressive law it didn't like, it is entirely possible that they also require a license.