Its the catalytic converter, stupid

When I say stupid, I am refering to myself.

I have a 1998 3.9L V6 Dakota with 60K miles. The engine has always been prone to knocking. Its worse in the summer (hot) and I must always use mid grade gas (87 octane).

This summer the knocking got real bad. I could not buy a high enough octane and the temperature did not seem to matter. So I asked around, posted on this group and did a web search. There was a lot of discussion about trying a cooler plug, or a lower temp thermostat. Even re-rounting the plug wires. But the bottom line was there is no magic bullet. This engine knocks.

So I assumed the engine was just getting old. After all the power seemed to be falling off too. I tried to put it out of my mind.

Last week I noticed a rattle under the truck. Got under and found the catalytic converter had a mass in it that was rattling around. So I had a new one put in. What a difference. Its like a new truck. The knocking has stopped. And the power is back.

Looks like the converter was pluged for most of the summer and I did not know it. Glad it finally started rattling.

Live and learn.

Reply to
Derek Toeppen
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Where I live we punch them internally and put them back.

Reply to
Ted Azito

Thats great news,

hope the feds knock on your door!

Reply to
DudLee Brennfoerder

Reply to
maxpower

Auto emissions are only long term in terms of carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide, and hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in a few hours in the atmosphere. Oxides of nitrogen may be a little more durable but not much. Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America and produce only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like LA and Denver. Where I live emmissions control does nothing for average air quality except in a really bad traffic jam.

And I'm not worried about the federales whatsoever. The State guys could cause trouble but they have to prove I was the one who did it. Even so all they can do is make me fix it.

Reply to
Ted Azito

Reply to
Greg G

Of course, you forgot that when hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in the atmosphere, this happens by combination with NoX, which produces ozone, which is a serious pollutant in the lower atmosphere.

Not true. In fact NoX emissions are the worst of all. At lower levels they combine with hydrocarbons to produce ozone. In fact, if enough sunlight is available the chemical reaction continually breaks apart and puts back together the NoX molecules, this process continues indefinitely, consuming hydrocarbons and spewing out ozone. As plants produce a large number of hydrocarbons, introducing NoX into the mix will create large amounts of ozone.

At higher levels in the atmosphere where there is higher solar energy available, and fewer to no hydrocarbons, the reaction is quite different, instead what is consumed is ozone itself.

NoX is mostly removed from the atmosphere by rain, creating acid rain.

Not perhaps at ground level, however it does destroy the ozone layer in the stratosphere. Why do you think incidence of skin cancer is so high now?

No, what they do is if your a shop and they think your doing this they run a staged vehicle through your shop, and if it comes out with a punched cat, then they give you a choice of either paying a fine or fixing it for all the customers they think you punched cats on.

If they keep getting reports that your still punching cats then the next time they run a staged vehicle through and it comes back punched, then they don't bother giving you the option to fix the cats anymore, they just fine you. And what your missing is that the very reason that this is an administrative violation, is because the state doesen't have to meet the burden of "beyond a reasonable doubt" if you try fighting it.

This is why speeding tickets aren't misdemeanors, didn't you know that? The very reason that the states keep them administrative violations, rather than actual criminal actions, is because as long as the ticket isn't a crime, the accuser (the state) isn't legally required to prove anything.

You should talk to a few people someday that have been fined for exceeding their fishing or hunting tags and see just how much the state had to prove.

Also with the newer vehicles that have post-cat emissions sensors, your never going to be able to get the check engine light to turn off, which kind of limits your ability to resell the car.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

Yes but I'm not a shop. And on later vehicles I'd get new firmware or go to an aftermarket programmable ECU... or you build an analog sim to put the postcat sensor input in acceptable parms. It's a voltage or resistance, use a pot or build a little adjustable power supply (also, basically, a pot.) I stay away from electronic vehicles for the most part.

Reply to
Ted Azito

Reply to
maxpower

Reply to
maxpower

How so? What do they do/cause/prevent that you object to?

If that's the case, how come they've been adopted as the heart of emission control systems worldwide?

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Then your statement that "we punch them" is pretty rediculous, don't you think? What you mean is "I punch them on my own cars" Why assume everyone else in your neck of the woods is a trailer trasher?

Spoken like someone who has never actually tried defeating a post cat sensor.

Hmm - well I suppose that there will be enough old eggbeaters out there that people want to dump to keep you in cars for the rest of your driving days.

You should be proud of yourself, you are serving a useful function - relieving all those people of having to pay to tow off their old heaps. I just hope you aren't dumping them in the stream in the back 40 when you can't get them to run anymore.

Someone has to buy all that duct tape.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

It would seem to me, mind you, I don't know my ass from ice cream about this sort of thing, but it seems to me that all it would do is dilute the emissions, by making them hotter. Less particles of [whatever it is that comes out]= lower emission count at the testing station.

I'm probably wrong, though.

Reply to
Bob Lutz

Um...yeah. You're wrong. *VERY* wrong. That's not how a catalytic converter works at all.

A catcon has two sections: a reducing section and an oxidizing section. Reduction and oxidation are two opposite chemical processes. In oxidation, Oxygen is combined with another element to create a compound called an "oxide". In reduction, oxygen is removed from an oxide.

The reducing section of the catalytic converter is upstream of the oxidizing section, and in some systems is housed separately. Its job is to _reduce_ Nitrogen Oxides ("NOx") into Nitrogen and Oxygen.

The oxidizing section of the catalytic converter then oxidizes Carbon Monoxide into Carbon Dioxide, and unburned hydrocarbons into Dihydrogen Monoxide (water) and Carbon Dioxide.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Yes, you are. Completely wrong. It doesn't dilute the particles by making them hotter, it finishes the combustion so the hydrocarbons aren't particles at all (nor hydrocarbons, for that matter) and the carbon monoxide is now carbon dioxide. They also break down NOx into nitrogen and oxygen.

Reply to
Joe Pfeiffer

Most of them are jerkball yuppies in my "neck of the woods". I usually have a hard time finding the kind of project cars I like-between 1965 and 1985.

My current fleet includes a real Meyers Manx with a real Porsche 912 engine (three piece case and all), a couple of diesel Benzes, and a '79 Chevy pickup. They are all pretty nice looking.

They were all bought not running cheaply and i did fix them up. They get cruncherized usually not when they "can't be made to run anymore" but because they have so badly rusted or have been in collisions that repair is impossible. Of course I pull out all the mechanicals.

My next vehicle will be a Jeep built from a new aftermarket frame and body. I hope to be able to license it as a 1973...

Reply to
Ted Azito

Well, technically not all cats have a reducing section. The early ones didn't. Also I don't think the ones they use on wood stoves have the reducing section either.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

I believe also that there isn't a reducing and oxidizing "section" per se, as in front half is one and back half is the other, I believe that this is accomplished with two layers of different catalyst coatings on top of the washcoat. The layers are fairly porous and thus the exhaust gas gets to both layers where the magic happens.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Be careful with that Dihydrogen Monoxide - it will kill you if inhaled. 8^)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

That's nothing compared to the expansive phase change that will occur if it is not stored and transported below 373.15K at all times...!

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

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