Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

New plugs, rotor, and cap every 10k? That's not very smart.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

It doesnt run on AA size but the development of better, lighter, and higher capacity modules for the car helps to make all sizes and shapes of cells better(the original 1997-2000 model in japan only did use "D" size cells in the traction battery)

And to think, the point where conventional cars could be entirely recycled had just been reached.

(I was watching ask-this-old-house a couple weeks ago and they had a landscaping railroad tie type thing that was made out out of the 'fluff', the last 6% or so of material from automobilies that nobody had a use for)

Especially when using a flashlight to see the gauges and all the other things that are let go.

For more money you can now get a European car giving more MPG and more trouble free miles.

Too soon.

Very frequent.

Too frequent for the plugs.

Your current vehicle must be very old to require such frequent oil and plug changes. If it isn't old you're wasting the environment.

Hold on there Daniel!

The battery industry is well able to come up with aftermarket replacement batteries for these cars. They aren't doing so now because there's no demand for them - because the warranties are all still in effect.

The dollar values of these battery packs are funny money, they are accounting fictions. Since the automakers pays for the warranty replacement of the battery, the automakers can price them however they want.

Consider for a moment this scenario. Honda could have figured out even before commencing manufacture that the battery pack will fail at least 1 time under warranty. We also know that Honda is probably losing $2,000 on every new hybrid they manufacture.

So Honda decided to engage in a bit of creative accounting. In order to minimize the loss on each car that they manufacture, they understate the actual cost of the battey pack by $2000. Thus while the real dollar amount they are losing on every new car is $4,000, because the battery pack is underestimated, the loss looks less than it is really.

Now, they have to get the money for these understated batteries somewhere. That's where the overinflated $8000 warranty battery comes in. Because it's a warranty, Honda can argue next year to it's stockholders that they didn't know warranty costs on the hybrids would be so high, thus their profits are down. In the meantime the $8000 warranty batteries are actually subsidizing the cost of the new batteries.

You have to assume that Honda's and Toyota's stockholders will tolerate some loss on hybrids, as a skunkworks market. But they won't tolerate it for very long, and they won't tolerate it if it's pretty massive. If the loss gets to high the investors will force those companies to jettison hybrid production. So if Honda's managers want to continue building and losing money on hybrids, they are going to have to do some creative accounting tricks to hide some of the losses on these cars. Pushing the loss out of the manufacturing cost bucket and into the warranty claims bucket is one of these tricks.

Why are you thinking that these cars batteries are going to be replaced by NiMH? My guess is the aftermarket battery industry will come out with a lead acid gel cell conventional technology retrofit battery for these cars, that will cost a quarter of the NiMH. Obviously the fuel mileage will suffer but not a lot, and the battery industry is under no obligation to manufacture a part that will retain the existing mileage. All that would probably need to be done is a reprogrammed battery computer to be installed that will properly maintain charge on a lead acid pack.

Ted

Around $30 to $60 for a lead acid battery. ;)

mike hunt

Will they also design a trailer to carry all the LA batteries need to produce enough voltage? ;)

mike

"Ted Mittelstaedt" >

You must have way too much time on your hands to be spending it nitpicking on usenet over spelling and grammar. Now go back to that high school and make the kids there miserable like so many teachers do.

John

John Horner, was motivated to say this in rec.autos.driving on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:31:09 GMT:

Judy spends its free time (when its not showing its silliness in r.a.d.) by sitting out in the back porch of its trailer wearing a tinfoil hat and watching for black helicopters with UN logos piloted by grey aliens...

Absolutely idiotic! Changing the oil at 3000 mile intervals is wasteful enough given that modern oils are generally good to 7000 or more miles,

1500 is just flat stupid. But what I'd expect from an "environmental responsibility is for everyone BUT me" liberal...

Here we go again!

NOT if that coincides with every three months on a grocery getter..

BUT!

Lubing joints that often MAY be bad... tends to burst boots and seals, leading to premature failure, UNLESS you are very careful.

Steve, was motivated to say this in rec.autos.driving on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:24:42 -0600:

Or a speed limits are for everyone BUT me nincompoop...

I got an old car. Not old enough to have points mind you; it does use electronic ignition. But even with EI i don't believe that 30K miles stuff. Same with greasing the front end. Every 1000 miles sounds like overkill to some people but i think it's a good idea.

Uh, Judy hasn't been to high school yet.

Mike Hunter wrote: > Will they also design a trailer to carry all the LA batteries need to > produce enough voltage? ;)

Put two 9 volt transistor radio batteries in series and you have enough

*voltage* - I can carry that in my pocket. I think you mean enough power - voltage is only half the equation. :)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Only person I've ever known to switch the plugs out every 10k or so did so at the end of his vehicle's life, and ended up selling his POS beater for scrap. Damned thing belched so much smoke when it was running (which was rare) and it's idling (if it could be considered idling) was horrendous. Guy had to keep one foot on the brake and one on the gas at stop signs to make sure the thing wouldn't choke out.

Hydrides use higher voltage to produce the proper amperage to do the work. To do so with LA batteries you would need a truck load. All common flashlight batteries produce 1 1/2 volts but the larger sizes produce more amps. Ask Mr. Ohms ;)

mike